Post your ladders!

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mw42
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Post your ladders!

Post by mw42 »

In a handicap game I played today, the following position appeared on the board:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X X X X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O X O X O X O C . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O O O O X X S . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X O . O . O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . X X O . O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O O X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X O X . X X Q X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O O O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Notice how :wt: is in the perfect position to make the ladder at :es: work! So I get to capture four stones instead of just playing at :ec: !

Post some other examples of interesting ladders from your games. :D

EDIT: Removed "neat" so I don't sound like a little girl. :mrgreen:
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Shaddy
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by Shaddy »

Image
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by Dusk Eagle »

This is the best one I can remember actually occurring in a game of mine.

Attachments
read the ladder.sgf
(1.78 KiB) Downloaded 1639 times
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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robinz
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by robinz »

Dusk Eagle - wow, a 1k didn't bother to read that ladder? It's not as if it was a blitz game, and even if he misread at first and thought it was in his favour, did he not stop and read it again after you'd played it out a few stones? (I know I do this when my opponent starts to play out a ladder that I thought was in my favour - and on at least one occasion discovered, in time to avoid disaster, that I had indeed misread the first time.) :scratch:

One dreads to think what Kageyama would have said...
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Shaddy
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by Shaddy »

robinz- misreading ladders is not uncommon (and sometimes when people notice they misread they keep going anyway..). usually I trace my finger over the board to make sure i'm doing it right, even (especially) in tournament games.
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by jdl »

robinz wrote:Dusk Eagle - wow, a 1k didn't bother to read that ladder?


Imagine the internal dialog from his opponent. "Wow, I can't believe that this 1k moron didn't bother to read out the ladd... oh."
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Dusk Eagle
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by Dusk Eagle »

Yeah, it's a pretty dumb mistake. Especially considering how :w52: is unnecessary. But I guess once he started, he may have been thinking, "if I'm wrong, I've lost anyway, so there's no point in stopping to read it out again."
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by xed_over »

robinz wrote:Dusk Eagle - wow, a 1k didn't bother to read that ladder?

I'm sure you guys are already familiar with the famous 2003 Lee Sedol game where he played out a ladder he couldn't win.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?LeeSedolHongChangSikLadderGame

But the failed ladder forced a capture on the other side of the board to allow him to win the game overall.
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mw42
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by mw42 »

Dusk Eagle wrote:Yeah, it's a pretty dumb mistake. Especially considering how :w52: is unnecessary. But I guess once he started, he may have been thinking, "if I'm wrong, I've lost anyway, so there's no point in stopping to read it out again."


I get nervous playing out a ladder that I think is in my favor. After every move I always stop and read it out again.
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Dusk Eagle
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by Dusk Eagle »

Confidence in your reading :rambo: ! If you can't read, you have nothing! Live and die by it!
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by Violence »

Well, Tygem 3d's can't read ladders either.

Image

Image

Image

Ladder reading. Completely unnecessary.
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by ethanb »

My best ladder recently never actually showed up on the board *as a ladder*, but it let me gain at least 15 points in a tournament game. (I was black with 4 stones... something bad happened in the lower left early on, but what happens now starts to make up for it.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc What does black do?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O X . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O X . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc :b8: is the fist hidden behind the ladder breaker silk glove
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O 4 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 5 O O 8 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . O . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc :b2: breaks the ladder again, so white has to spend more moves to capture
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X 3 O . X O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Fedya
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by Fedya »

Shaddy wrote:Image

I would have posted this, which is much more frightening.
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mw42
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by mw42 »

Fedya wrote:
Shaddy wrote:Image

I would have posted this, which is much more frightening.


You have posted it. :)
Last edited by mw42 on Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gaius
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Re: Post your ladders!

Post by gaius »

Shaddy wrote:robinz- misreading ladders is not uncommon (and sometimes when people notice they misread they keep going anyway..). usually I trace my finger over the board to make sure i'm doing it right, even (especially) in tournament games.

Seriously?! And you're KGS 3 dan? I have never seen anybody do this in tournaments, not even double-digit kyu players! If my opponent would try that, it would really annoy me, and I'd probably tell him to stop (calling the referee might not even be unreasonable, because you're obstructing your opponent's thought process pretty badly). Now I don't know you personally, but I'd strongly advise you to stop this if you ever want your dan grade to be taken seriously ;).

By the way, I think anyone who is not sure whether they've read out a ladder correctly should just re-read and re-read until they are sure (even kyu players). They give you plenty of time in tournaments, and if you don't learn to read you will not get stronger. Finger tracing is for dweebs :cool:.
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