95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Aphelion »

Balmung, if you wish we could treat this as an open game where we could see each other's comments. I think it will be a good learning experience :razz:
User avatar
balmung
Lives with ko
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:20 pm
Rank: Kgs 5k
GD Posts: 146
KGS: Thomato
Online playing schedule: Inconsistent
Location: Columbia, SC
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by balmung »

That is fine.
“I’m here to play go and chew bubble gum, and I’m all out of gum”- misquoted duke nukem
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Aphelion »

Alright, its your move then :)
User avatar
balmung
Lives with ko
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:20 pm
Rank: Kgs 5k
GD Posts: 146
KGS: Thomato
Online playing schedule: Inconsistent
Location: Columbia, SC
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by balmung »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



my thoughts


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B1cm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . a X W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

originaly I didn't read this out right I didn't realize 7 and a might be miai correct me if I'm wrong but a at move 8 seems to make this a even harder fight in your favor, and I might be wrong about sequence of moves.
“I’m here to play go and chew bubble gum, and I’m all out of gum”- misquoted duke nukem
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

balmung wrote:my thoughts
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X W X . . |
$$. 3 O X 7 . . |
$$. 5 4 6 . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]
W would get a very big corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 W X 4 . . |
$$. . 5 6 8 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]
Puppycakes
Lives with ko
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:31 am
Rank: 2Q
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Puppycakes »

@Ed Lee:

Why wouldn't black play like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 . . |
$$. . 7 5 6 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Then he also has this later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . O O . . |
$$. . X O X 6 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. X . X O 2 . |
$$. . X X O 1 4 |
$$. . . . 3 5 . |
$$---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 6 . |
$$. . . 5 . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Or perhaps white would respond like this. Does that stone have much aji?
amnal
Lives in gote
Posts: 589
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am
Rank: 2 dan
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 114 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by amnal »

Puppycakes wrote:@Ed Lee:

Why wouldn't black play like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 . . |
$$. . 7 5 6 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Then he also has this later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . O O . . |
$$. . X O X 6 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. X . X O 2 . |
$$. . X X O 1 4 |
$$. . . . 3 5 . |
$$---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 6 . |
$$. . . 5 . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Or perhaps white would respond like this. Does that stone have much aji?

EDIT: Seems like a lot of aji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . 4 . |
$$. . . O O 3 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. . X O X 5 9 |
$$. X . X O 1 6 |
$$. . X X O 2 7 |
$$. . . . . . 8 |
$$---------------[/go]
User avatar
Shaddy
Lives in sente
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:44 pm
Rank: KGS 5d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 192 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Shaddy »

amnal wrote:
Puppycakes wrote:@Ed Lee:

Why wouldn't black play like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 . . |
$$. . 7 5 6 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Then he also has this later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . O O . . |
$$. . X O X 6 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. X . X O 2 . |
$$. . X X O 1 4 |
$$. . . . 3 5 . |
$$---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 6 . |
$$. . . 5 . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Or perhaps white would respond like this. Does that stone have much aji?

EDIT: Seems like a lot of aji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . 4 . |
$$. . . O O 3 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. . X O X 5 9 |
$$. X . X O 1 6 |
$$. . X X O 2 7 |
$$. . . . . . 8 |
$$---------------[/go]


Observers:
Edlee's variation is sente for black, yours is gote. Also in the last diagram, 6 is better at 7, and then black is unconditionally dead.
Puppycakes
Lives with ko
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:31 am
Rank: 2Q
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Puppycakes »

amnal wrote:
Puppycakes wrote:@Ed Lee:

Why wouldn't black play like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 . . |
$$. . 7 5 6 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Then he also has this later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . O O . . |
$$. . X O X 6 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. X . X O 2 . |
$$. . X X O 1 4 |
$$. . . . 3 5 . |
$$---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 6 . |
$$. . . 5 . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Or perhaps white would respond like this. Does that stone have much aji?

EDIT: Seems like a lot of aji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . 4 . |
$$. . . O O 3 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. . X O X 5 9 |
$$. X . X O 1 6 |
$$. . X X O 2 7 |
$$. . . . . . 8 |
$$---------------[/go]



So this sequence looks fine.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 W X 4 6 . |
$$. . . 5 a . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


I was just wondering if there was a reason that Ed thought that black would take with five instead of extending. I was wondering about ways for white to exploit the aji of the marked stone later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. b . O O . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. X W X O O . |
$$. . . X a . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Like the jump to b.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. 1 . O O . . |
$$2 . X O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. X O X O O . |
$$. . . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Which I perhaps black could respond with the jump to 2 and I think the exchange was bad.
So I'm wondering if there is a good reason for black to not extend.
Puppycakes
Lives with ko
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:31 am
Rank: 2Q
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Puppycakes »

Shaddy wrote:
amnal wrote:
Puppycakes wrote:@Ed Lee:

Why wouldn't black play like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 . . |
$$. . 7 5 6 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Then he also has this later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . O O . . |
$$. . X O X 6 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. X . X O 2 . |
$$. . X X O 1 4 |
$$. . . . 3 5 . |
$$---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 O X 4 6 . |
$$. . . 5 . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Or perhaps white would respond like this. Does that stone have much aji?

EDIT: Seems like a lot of aji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . 4 . |
$$. . . O O 3 . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. . X O X 5 9 |
$$. X . X O 1 6 |
$$. . X X O 2 7 |
$$. . . . . . 8 |
$$---------------[/go]


Observers:
Edlee's variation is sente for black, yours is gote. Also in the last diagram, 6 is better at 7, and then black is unconditionally dead.

Ok, that makes sense. For some reason I was thinking that either way of playing ended in the same status for sente/gote.
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

@Puppycakes.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :wc:
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . 2 O . . |
$$. . 1 O X . . |
$$. . X O X . . |
$$. 3 W X 4 . . |
$$. . 5 6 8 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]
What Shaddy said. :) Sente/gote is very big.
Also, W may not be able to atari at :w6: if W cannot afford the ko,
in which case W would just extend to :w8: directly, so B still has sente.
So the :b5: capture is clean, clear, good aji (for B), and sente -- all the good stuff. :)
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Balmung, you can read all my hide tags, I just use them for organization.
This is the kind of move you don't even bother thinking about. White simply has to connect here for his previous moves to have any meaning. Now, Black has a choice. He either fixes his cut and the fight becomes complicated, or he takes outside thickness and sacrifices the corner. I'm happy with either.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wonder if white can sacrifice one more stone to end in sente in above variation...

Or it can get really messy:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 First variation that comes to mind.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 4 5 X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
User avatar
balmung
Lives with ko
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:20 pm
Rank: Kgs 5k
GD Posts: 146
KGS: Thomato
Online playing schedule: Inconsistent
Location: Columbia, SC
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by balmung »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . 1 O X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is this okay because I want the outside influence and you said you happy either way

Is it better to jump out or connect my two stones in the upper right? tell me what you think I really feel the jump is more valuable and I think you spliting invasion is an ok price to pay.
“I’m here to play go and chew bubble gum, and I’m all out of gum”- misquoted duke nukem
User avatar
Tommie
Dies with sente
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:56 am
Rank: 3d EGF
GD Posts: 1700
Location: still above sea level: http://bit.ly/eQYULx
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Tommie »

Aphelion wrote:
the messy variant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 First variation that comes to mind.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 4 5 X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Several remarks:
i) general: the heuristic 'capture the cutting stone' is more often than not a safe guidance.
Hence, the first diagram with side-ponuki for Black and corner for White is preferred by me.

ii) technically:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X b a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

often one should consider the hanging connection, as shown here.
However here this would be so weird after an white A, B (+ C?) exchange,
that again, I go back to remark i) 'Capture the cutting stone'.

iii) Tesuji :w9: must induce exchange A-B, which white happily accepts for the lower side.
WD could follow.
What comes hereafter is speculation to me, yet I evaluate it not bad at all for White.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 tesuji to be looked at
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 8 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a c . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . b 7 6 X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 4 5 X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



iv) Other suji is the simple extension, threatening a ladder A-E,
even if Black extends to F (hence he might bamboo @ G),
allowing W to jump out with J.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 other variation
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . j . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . g f . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . e c Y O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . d b a O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , n m X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . p o . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's resistance M is better not answered by hane N, if W wants to keep her 3 stones below (as they might be valuable against the black corner), hence a submissive jump to P seems ok, and B will extend at N.

I tried to cover something in variations.
Attachments
Kyu-Joseki variation.sgf
(1.14 KiB) Downloaded 442 times
Greetings,
Tommie

3dan EGF (AGA no 13477) || Tommie on KGS: 'June'|| DGS: 'Zhi Laohu' 纸老虎 = 'paper tiger' || Senseis : http://senseis.xmp.net/?tderz ||
ENFP (MBTI) - 'Find your own style within the Fundamentals of Go! '
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yea, I'm fine with this. Looking at this, Black position on the board feels a little low overall. I'm not quite sure how that is immediately exploitable or even bad at first glance, but there's no rush. I can just take this large point so far. I'm choosing high instead of low because the low move seems to make the board seem too settled and boring. I want to invite a fight on the left.
Post Reply