99. topazg vs sevis

Post Reply
User avatar
Sevis
Lives with ko
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:14 am
Rank: KGS 6 kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Sevis
Location: The Netherlands
Has thanked: 11 times

Re: 99. topazg vs sevis

Post by Sevis »

I think I only have one possible move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
After that, white will need to decide whether to block or to extend.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O 7 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O 6 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think white will extend once then block...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 5 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O 6 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
And, after this, I'm not really sure what to do. Wait, I'm missing something.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O 6 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Hm, the error of :b1: is becoming clearer, as only two stones there would have been easier for me. In any case, the group has escaped (white can try to block, but I'll extend). On the other hand, white has sente, which is very, very unpleasant.

On the other hand, the top white group isn't completely alive yet, and if this was an even game, I would now be trying to brutally murder it in horrible, horrible ways.

Oh, wait. The 3-3 point. I think white will play the 3-3 point...

Well, no choice now, let's see whether black extends or not.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Thank you. ^^ I'll probably start replying faster on Monday, when school starts again (no matter how paradoxical that may sound).
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re:

Post by topazg »

@Ed:
EdLee wrote:
I added :wc: back. :b5: in your var was loose. How about this--
W would not get a chance to play (a). If anything, it's B who gets to play either (a) to close W,
(b) to chase W out. W is under attack. B has no need to settle :bc: because
B is actively attacking, and also because the left side has very few points (for both B and W):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . W . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X 1 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O 2 . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think :b9: is probably better at "a", which is normal attacking shape. I think Black is too thin. As White, firstly, I'd jump at :w2: rather than crawl. I agree, this is a good way for Black to attack, but it feels optimistic to try your :b9: ... we'll see where the game goes :)
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 99. topazg vs sevis

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O 6 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

@topazg:
topazg wrote:I think :b9: is probably better at "a", which is normal attacking shape.
:b9: and (a) are completely different ideas; (a) is wrong direction:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X 1 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O 2 . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
After :b1: :w2:, B pushes W out into the center, hurting the :bs: group;
later, if W gets (b), the entire :bs: group is not even alive:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . 2 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X # # X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So locally on the upper left, (a) would be better as the kosumi :b1:, which:
(1) splits :wt: and :wc:, (2) attacks :wt:, (3) starts to connect with the top,
and (4) prepares to attack :wc: -- still with B (c):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . Q X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . Q . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W W W . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In contrast, :b1: (1) gets :bs: out, (2) controls the center, and (3) completely closes :wc::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W W W . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X # # X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
topazg wrote:I think Black is too thin.
It may look thin, but it is not. Two variations:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 4 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . 4 5 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
topazg wrote:As White, firstly, I'd jump at :w2: rather than crawl.
:w2: jump is fine, but B still gets :b7: (EDIT: :b7: moved down from (a) because B has 1 less stone at :b5: ):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 O . 7 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . 2 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Last edited by EdLee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 99. topazg vs sevis

Post by topazg »

@Ed:
I still think you're too thin with that, some of your diagrams (particularly the Black double hane, but also with White jumping through with a knight) have a few holes - You can find them if you like yourself, but I'd rather just play one game in this thread if possible ... it seems a bit disrespectful to sevis otherwise.

I guess we'll see, if we get there :)

PS I totally agree with you about the knight being the wrong direction, but as the moves you've proposed don't actually kill, the direction of Black's resulting position is quite important.
Top
User avatar
Sevis
Lives with ko
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:14 am
Rank: KGS 6 kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Sevis
Location: The Netherlands
Has thanked: 11 times

Re: 99. topazg vs sevis

Post by Sevis »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O 6 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I guess this is good, but hm... I have the feeling white will slide underneath on the left.
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 99. topazg vs sevis

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Central facing influence is more useful to me than edge points right now, so going to make shape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

@topazg:
topazg wrote:I still think you're too thin with that, some of your diagrams
Yes, there are many variations and B must play correctly, but B should be fine. :)
topazg wrote:but as the moves you've proposed don't actually kill, the direction of Black's resulting position is quite important.
B does not need to kill; only to close W. And B H8 is correct direction. :) Back to the game.
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 99. topazg vs sevis

Post by topazg »

Spoiler:
If I was Black, I'd be tempted to play:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 "a" and "b" sort of miai?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . b , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Spoiler.
:b30: is loose (re: post #75):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 4 O . 7 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . 2 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re:

Post by topazg »

EdLee wrote:@topazg:
topazg wrote:I still think you're too thin with that, some of your diagrams
Yes, there are many variations and B must play correctly, but B should be fine. :)
topazg wrote:but as the moves you've proposed don't actually kill, the direction of Black's resulting position is quite important.
B does not need to kill; only to close W. And B H8 is correct direction. :) Back to the game.
@Ed:
If you say so. We can agree to disagree then :)
Top
User avatar
Sevis
Lives with ko
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:14 am
Rank: KGS 6 kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Sevis
Location: The Netherlands
Has thanked: 11 times

Re: 99. topazg vs sevis

Post by Sevis »

First instinct is to offer the stone some help from the other side, but I think that's going to turn out to be a horrible idea, seeing as it'll make that white group even stronger...

Wait a second. That stone is two points. The area around it is, hm, eight points? Tenuki is probably best. I could go with `the enemy's vital point is my vital point' and play where 33 was supposed to go, but I think I can do better, as white will play G8... But then, white will play G8 anyway. Going to think about it.
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

@topazg (open after :w27:):
topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 3 O 1 c . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 X X O X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
When you state that Black has a big corner, I'm guessing you overlooked the above continuation,
I did not overlook :w2: to :b5:, which is bad habit:
(1) aji keshi: for a very few points, W fixes all of B's bad aji here and makes B super strong;
kills 2 ko threats, and the W (c) clamp is no longer sente, etc.
(2) After :b5:, W is still not alive (e.g., needs :w6:, etc. so W gets gote).
topazg wrote: :bc: is most definitely less stable,
As we already discussed, :bc: is fine. :) Back to the game.
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 99. topazg vs sevis

Post by topazg »

@Ed:
You have very definitive opinions for a 4k.
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

@topazg:
topazg wrote:If you say so. We can agree to disagree then :)
When W jumps to :w2: directly, I moved :b7: down from (a).
The double hane variation was when B has an extra stone at (b), so B (a) was OK (not thin :) ):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . 3 . . a . . .
$$ | . . O O 4 O . 7 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X X 1 5 b . .
$$ | . . . X . O O . 2 , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
Top
Post Reply

Return to “1-on-1 Malkovich games”