My recent game in the german go-league

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » Thu May 06, 2010 2:12 pm

Hey folks,
I've finished my recent go-league game about 20 minutes ago and would like to get some comments on it. I felt ahead in the opening, but after the invasion of my lower right moyo my group was split in two. I guess something went wrong here. I think afterwards my opponent did some mistakes in attacking my group and I was able to take the lead again, played a solid endgame and carried the win home (my opponent did a big mistake again in the endgame giving me additional 9 points but I knew I was ahead before that).

I'm especially interested in the opening and early middle game.

I post this game although it is a win because the settings in the german go-league ('Bundesliga') are very similar to real games (60 minutes 15stones/5min) and I'm not playing the 'normal' kgs/wbaduk try-and-die style.

Any comments are welcome

I'm playing as Westf2Br4

serapis · Post by **serapis** » Thu May 06, 2010 6:11 pm

I don't have time to review the whole thing, but here are the first 100 moves.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Thu May 06, 2010 6:19 pm

7: Safe, but maybe too safe. R8 looks a teeny bit bigger.

13: Nice in-between move.

29: I don't like this move.
A) It loses sente.
B) It greatly decreases the aji of the F3 stone.
C) It builds a very invadable territory

Possible alternatives are E9 ( it grabs territory and threatens F2 and F5 ) or L17.

56: White misses K18?

67: H2?

83: Makes you heavy with no friends in sight. Again, I'd play H2 first, and make him commit.

150: N12. Get the second eye.

Post by **Solomon** » Thu May 06, 2010 8:30 pm

Post by **Solomon** » Thu May 06, 2010 9:12 pm

At around 3:35 in the first part, my wording was a bit poor so let me elaborate. It's not the D7 move that's really the culprit, but rather then F3 H3 exchange made prior to playing D7 that's odd. If the exchange wasn't made and White played D7, it makes a lot more sense.

Also, B6 was incorrect on my part. After the D2-E2 exchange, Black can obviously play at E3. That's what happens when you play out variations too quickly

.

edit: Added into the annotations feature, whee.

Tyson2011 · Post by **Tyson2011** » Thu May 06, 2010 9:15 pm

i'd hardly call a 35 minute review short

....although i did listen to the whole thing and keep interest

Post by **Solomon** » Thu May 06, 2010 9:20 pm

Tyson2011 wrote:i'd hardly call a 35 minute review short ....although i did listen to the whole thing and keep interest

Yeah, it went a bit longer than I anticipated but oh well, that's a good sign the game was fun to go over

. And as I've mentioned in the videos, I did the review as the moves came in so like what I wrote in the annotations just a few minutes ago, there may be some things I may have made a mistake on or my wording may have been poor - so if anyone has questions or constructive criticism or thinks I made a mistake somewhere, just let me know

.

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » Fri May 07, 2010 6:23 am

holy cow, thanks so much for so many reviews, I'll need some time to read/hear it all

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » Fri May 07, 2010 7:51 am

Oh my god, thanks so much Sol, sera and Joaz

I love the videoreview and the many opening-variations you've given.

Sry Sol for not beeing able to kill the white group but as you mentioned I was counting very accurate and knew I would end up winning at this point of the game.
While watching the video I noticed how many bad exchanges I've done because of thinking they would actually help me ~ I'm some kind of embarrassed

f.e. the 103-104 exchange: I thought that this move would be super awesome because it took a possible eye from white. I didnt even thought that this is ajikeshi² giving white good shape and wasting my n8/n9 opportunities.

Regarding the leftside (around move #37) I took very much time to read this but wasnt able to come up with a variation I liked. Simply taking the influence looked ok on the first sight, but I wasnt able to spot a way to put my influence to use. His right group looked so stable after r12. After thinking some minutes I was going to play this variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 5 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . 6 X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O . X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well he didnt allow me to play like this with taking b8 for himself so I thought of a way to kill the whole thing.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After hearing Arabans review I searched for w6 in some databases. I only found 2 games where white played this move. THe first move I thought about was indeed 'a' instead of 7... I dont know why but I didnt like to give white a later possible invasion point at 7 so I played this kind of slow move. Guess I should think about my opening judgement

I played 3 because recently many players in germany dont like the minichinese opening and attack the facing komoku directly with 4 or 'a':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . 4 , 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If it is a serious game I like to start with a shimari. To ensure I'll get it I started my recent important games with the 3-5 move to deny whites direct approach.

Post by **Solomon** » Fri May 07, 2010 9:45 am

Jonas wrote:Sry Sol for not beeing able to kill the white group but as you mentioned I was counting very accurate and knew I would end up winning at this point of the game.
While watching the video I noticed how many bad exchanges I've done because of thinking they would actually help me ~ I'm some kind of embarrassed

Haha, well it's surely nothing to be sorry about. After all, locking up a victory is also a skill that needs to be refined for us, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think there's two types of players in this department though, the ones who will "turtle" (not really the best term, since it kind of denotes negativity when in fact it is not so) after taking a lead late enough into the game that they will begin to play the slower moves that clean up aji and remove less possibilities for their opponent. Many pros and I'd say the majority of amateurs fall under this category (though a pros' "slack" move will hardly be slack in our eyes).

Then there are the players who realize they have the lead, but continue to play the way they normally do, or even more aggressively and not afraid to play late complex fights with the opponent and giving the opponent more chances. Playing like this can hurt your win/loss ratio and lead to some pretty psychologically devastating games, but I think in the long run there are some benefits to playing like this as well. Pros like Cho Hunhyun or Yoo Changhyuk today, who don't have to worry so much about driving out competition for their age and instead play for enjoyment in the pro league (not to say they don't study seriously!), are examples of such players.

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » Fri May 07, 2010 10:04 am

Araban wrote:
Jonas wrote:Sry Sol for not beeing able to kill the white group but as you mentioned I was counting very accurate and knew I would end up winning at this point of the game.
While watching the video I noticed how many bad exchanges I've done because of thinking they would actually help me ~ I'm some kind of embarrassed

Haha, well it's surely nothing to be sorry about. After all, locking up a victory is also a skill that needs to be refined for us, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think there's two types of players in this department though, the ones who will "turtle" (not really the best term, since it kind of denotes negativity when in fact it is not so) after taking a lead late enough into the game that they will begin to play the slower moves that clean up aji and remove less possibilities for their opponent. Many pros and I'd say the majority of amateurs fall under this category (though a pros' "slack" move will hardly be slack in our eyes).

Then there are the players who realize they have the lead, but continue to play the way they normally do, or even more aggressively and not afraid to play late complex fights with the opponent and giving the opponent more chances. Playing like this can hurt your win/loss ratio and lead to some pretty psychologically devastating games, but I think in the long run there are some benefits to playing like this as well. Pros like Cho Hunhyun or Yoo Changhyuk today, who don't have to worry so much about driving out competition for their age and instead play for enjoyment in the pro league (not to say they don't study seriously!), are examples of such players.

Well normally I tend to the category 'more aggressively and die trying' but as serapis already guessed, I was some kind of worried because this game was rather important for my team. The german go league is a teamcompetition 4 boards each team and because we won this match we ve now the chance to rise to the 3rd league by relegation :3

Hmmm I'm still so happy you made such a fuss just for a review of my games ^_^

Because I enjoyed the video so much, I had the idea of makeing a videoreview myself but as a non native english-speaker I'm afraid I wont be able to phrase everything fluent. Maybe I'll give it a try anyway

serapis · Post by **serapis** » Fri May 07, 2010 11:40 am

Jonas wrote:Oh my god, thanks so much Sol, sera and Joaz
I played 3 because recently many players in germany dont like the minichinese opening and attack the facing komoku directly with 4 or 'a':

This thought seems dangerous and...wrong so early in the game so i provided variations.

Life In 19x19

My recent game in the german go-league

My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league

Re: My recent game in the german go-league