What do you think of sensei's library

[Joaz Banbeck]

... that a new structure for SL should include less discussions because discussions are better organized here. This makes a huge amount of sense. Discussions that clog SL could be fruitful if carried on here, particularly if the collaboration between SL and L19 were improved.

One idea would be to install a sub-forum specifically for SL and to link to it prominently on SL. ...

What do you think?

This sound like a great idea to me. A new forum is easy to make.

But what about the admins/owners at the SL end? Is it ok with them? After all, we are talking about coopting some of the functionality of their site. Also, it seems to imply that some of the results of discussions here would end up being achived there, thus using a lot more of their disk space.


ANY SL ADMINS/OWNERS READING THIS? IF SO, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

[HermanHiddema]

... that a new structure for SL should include less discussions because discussions are better organized here. This makes a huge amount of sense. Discussions that clog SL could be fruitful if carried on here, particularly if the collaboration between SL and L19 were improved.

One idea would be to install a sub-forum specifically for SL and to link to it prominently on SL. ...

What do you think?

This sound like a great idea to me. A new forum is easy to make.

But what about the admins/owners at the SL end? Is it ok with them? After all, we are talking about coopting some of the functionality of their site. Also, it seems to imply that some of the results of discussions here would end up being achived there, thus using a lot more of their disk space.


ANY SL ADMINS/OWNERS READING THIS? IF SO, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

I don't think this adds anything of value to SL.

[Tsuyoku]

My biggest question is, why are so few SL contributors 4d+?

Why are the top players completely disinterested in submitting authoritative content?

It would be nice if some would answer with what they need as incentive. It can't be that they're holding out for the amazing book deals...

[gowan]

My biggest question is, why are so few SL contributors 4d+?

Why are the top players completely disinterested in submitting authoritative content?

It would be nice if some would answer with what they need as incentive. It can't be that they're holding out for the amazing book deals...

I think many strong amateurs don't feel all that "authoritative" about a lot of things, for one point. For another point, answering specific questions based on opinions is relatively easy, writing good authoritative articles is much more difficult. For a third point, the basic ground has been covered fairly well on SL and no one wants to repeat things. Two things that I think are much needed on SL are (1) maintenance and repair of corrupted articles, and (2) organization and making things more easily accessible. The former is somewhat boring (but necessary), the latter, again, is difficult.

[pwaldron]

Why are the top players completely disinterested in submitting authoritative content?

Truthfully it's just not worth it. You're right, the book deals aren't there, and it's not a lot of fun sitting in front of a computer and typing for the length of time necessary to put together good stuff. If you want good stuff online, the best way is probably to get a lesson from a strong player, ask the questions you want and then post something authoritative online yourself.

[Bill Spight]

My biggest question is, why are so few SL contributors 4d+?

Why are the top players completely disinterested in submitting authoritative content?

It would be nice if some would answer with what they need as incentive. It can't be that they're holding out for the amazing book deals...

I submitted authoritative content.

[Tsuyoku]

I submitted authoritative content.

Why?

[willemien]

ANY SL ADMINS/OWNERS READING THIS? IF SO, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

I am one of the librarians

[Mivo]

I don't think this adds anything of value to SL.

As a user, I think I prefer to keep SL discussions/content on SL. After seeing what happened to GD, it would break SL if L19 went down and suddenly all the "interactive" discussion content would be lost. (Not saying I expect this, especially since L19 isn't just a one-man project, but it's a concern.)

An alternative approach might be to keep the discussions on SL more restricted to the /discussions sub pages rather than having them inside, or at the bottom, of the content pages.

[Bantari]

My biggest question is, why are so few SL contributors 4d+?

Why are the top players completely disinterested in submitting authoritative content?

It would be nice if some would answer with what they need as incentive. It can't be that they're holding out for the amazing book deals...

Strong players get strong by playing and learning, not writing and teaching, that's why.

Since we all play Go for fun, it would stand to reason to assume that strong players, taking into account the above statement, have more fun playing and learning than writing and teaching. it sort-of sucks for the lower-rated players, but what can you do... If you want the strong players to contribute, you need to provide some kind of incentive, monetary or otherwise. We have had a discussion about this recently on L19, as I recall. The bottom line being that if you want somebody to do stuff they don't like doing, you need to pay them. Other than money, there is not that much weak(er) player have to offer... worship, maybe?

You can see the same issue popping up all over the place - the issue of incentive and, ultimately, money. Pros play for money... they write for money... they teach for money... even if its not you who pays them. The whole discussion about European Championship - there is also a strong undercurrent related to money. The reasons for strong Asians visiting Europe... same thing, no matter how some wish to smudge it. And so on...

'Tis how the world turns.
We are all becoming americanized, I guess...

The question is - given that these are the cards we have been dealt - what are we going to do?

[gowan]

I submitted authoritative content.

Why?

I think Bill is a very generous man More important, perhaps, is why people stop contributing. There have been several major contributors who have either stopped contributing or have greatly reduced the amount they contribute, Charles Matthews, for example. Burnout and change in interest are two reasons.

[tapir]

I wrote [sl=SLAsAnAgeingWiki]extensively[/sl] on that matter on SL, indirectly causing this thread, everybody who cares is invited to join the discussion there. (You do not even need to create an account.) Just that: Even the worst discussion on SL inspires edits, improvements etc. to SL articles, but even the best discussions here rarely have any spillover to SL. I am e.g. not aware of any substantial contributions to SL resulting from about 10k (often insightful) posts in the Malkovich forum here. In the long run we will have to accustom to the fact there is more than one platform around, the earlier we foster a spirit of cooperation (as opposed to take-over) the better.

[topazg]

I wrote [sl=SLAsAnAgeingWiki]extensively[/sl] on that matter on SL, indirectly causing this thread, everybody who cares is invited to join the discussion there. (You do not even need to create an account.) Just that: Even the worst discussion on SL inspires edits, improvements etc. to SL articles, but even the best discussions here rarely have any spillover to SL. I am e.g. not aware of any substantial contributions to SL resulting from about 10k (often insightful) posts in the Malkovich forum here. In the long run we will have to accustom to the fact there is more than one platform around, the earlier we foster a spirit of cooperation (as opposed to take-over) the better.

Perhaps librarians or other custodians of information can recognise where things being said on here may contribute to a particular SL article, and link to that article accordingly. In fact, whenever a topic is discussed, or a game review contains comments / advice particular to an article on SL, a link and a plea for contributions might help?

It won't resolve any article organisational issues, but it will keep people here thinking about the quality of information there

[SpongeBob]

As a beginner I went to Sensei's frequently, but at some point, I switched over to learing from books. Also, when I looked up joseki after a game, I would use MoyoGo to see how professionals are playing the joseki. So I stopped going to Sensei's, almost forgot about it.

When I now look at it again, motivated by this very thread, I see how good the content actually is, regarding for example joseki. I would say it is the best free reference available for joseki, by far better than Kogo's. And it is also quite nicely done, the navigation is working perfectly for studying joseki.

On the other hand, here in the L19 forum, I hardly see any reference to SL content. I think we should all value 'our' Wiki more and reference it more often. For example the SL-tag here in the forum - it did not know that it exists

So my key message: We have a very great asset there - let's be proud of it and advertise it more often here on L19 - so that also beginners will visit it regularly and take advantage of it.

[antispin]

I used SL a lot as a beginner, and am still fond of it.

I use it to look up joseki, or life and death of common corner patterns.
Sometimes I just try to get my head round some of the the more advanced topics in there (e.g. tedomari, thousand year ko, eternal life, etc)

SL is messy in places, and feels a little out-of-date in terms of design, but I can't really complain, as I'm not spending my time on tidying it up either.