Game finishing issues

[Joaz Banbeck]

I just finished my first rated game on KGS. At the end, after I had pressed 'done', the score appeared. I said 'thanks', got no reply. Then the game began backing up. About half of the stones disappeared. Then a window popped up that said 'the owner of the game has left'.

Was my opponent trying to convey something?
Was he being rude? Or was I(inadvertently)?
Why did the game back up?
What is 'ownership' of the game, and how is it determined?

Overall, what is the general sequence of actions and events to end a game properly? And politely?

[hyperpape]

I think that means he was reviewing the game, by himself. He backed the game up until he saw some spot where (based on a half second's reading) he thought he had a chance to win, or until he felt such disgust at his play that he went away. More rarely, he might have won, and just been looking at something. Ownership just means who is directing the review.

He was being rude.

Generally, you say thanks, they say thanks, you awkwardly wait a minute, and see if someone starts a review or conversation. But you can skip those, and just say "see you", "gotta go" or whatever else.

WMS: If my opponent starts a review then leaves, wouldn't it be better if control reverts to me?

[CSamurai]

I just finished my first rated game on KGS. At the end, after I had pressed 'done', the score appeared. I said 'thanks', got no reply. Then the game began backing up. About half of the stones disappeared. Then a window popped up that said 'the owner of the game has left'.

Was my opponent trying to convey something?
Was he being rude? Or was I(inadvertently)?
Why did the game back up?
What is 'ownership' of the game, and how is it determined?

Overall, what is the general sequence of actions and events to end a game properly? And politely?

To answer you rquestions and expand on what Hyperpape said.

1) No, hey was not trying to convey something.
2) He was being quite rude.
3) The game backed up because he was reviewing the game. After a game is complete, there is a button somewhere in the UI that opens up a 'review' copy of the game. The first player to do this gets control and 'ownership'. You can open up your own review copy by leaving, and finding the game in your user info, and selecting 'load game in:' and a room. If I don't want to review with my opponent, this is what I do, since opening one directly from the ended game sucks everyone in the game into your review.
4) Ownership is determined by whoever created the instance of the game. It is important for several things. A) The owner of the game can take control and give control at will to anyone in the game. B) The owner is by default in control, and can navigate through the game, and play out variations. C) Private mode. If you don't want others invading your game, you can open it in private mode. This locks the game so that only the owner, the players, and people you invite can enter. D) The game can be stored with comments and variations on the owner's games list, and accessed by downloading from KGS' website, or directly from user info.

Hyperpape has the general 'safe' end of the game down. A lot of players say thanks and disconnect in the same breath, but once in a while, you'll find people who will chat with you.

Good luck, and enjoy KGS.

[Joaz Banbeck]

Thanks to both of you.

[xed_over]

I said 'thanks', got no reply.
...
Was he being rude?

He was being rude.

2) He was being quite rude.

why?

is this some sort of cultural thing (that some think its rude, and others don't)?
what if I don't want to chat? Maybe I just want to play another game right away. maybe there's a language barrier. maybe I'm only 6 years old and can't type.

by comparison, is it rude when you accidentally call a wrong number and you just hang up without saying "sorry" or anything? Is it more rude if that call was at 3am?

I know a lot of people agree with you guys, but I also know several who think differently. Is it really wrong to think differently? Who decides that its right or wrong? Is there an unwritten moral code somewhere? I think there is a Japanese over-the-board tradition for greeting and thanking your opponent in regards to the game of Go. Is really so important for this to carry over to internet Go?

[lorill]

You can analyze instead of comment the game if you want to stay alone...

[daal]

WMS: If my opponent starts a review then leaves, wouldn't it be better if control reverts to me?

1+

is this some sort of cultural thing (that some think its rude, and others don't)?
what if I don't want to chat? Maybe I just want to play another game right away. maybe there's a language barrier. maybe I'm only 6 years old and can't type.

by comparison, is it rude when you accidentally call a wrong number and you just hang up without saying "sorry" or anything? Is it more rude if that call was at 3am?

I know a lot of people agree with you guys, but I also know several who think differently. Is it really wrong to think differently? Who decides that its right or wrong? Is there an unwritten moral code somewhere? I think there is a Japanese over-the-board tradition for greeting and thanking your opponent in regards to the game of Go. Is really so important for this to carry over to internet Go?

I think everybody decides for themselves what they think is rude and what not, but part of it relates to observing or disregarding tradition. Greeting and thanking for an internet game has I believe become the tradition. Perhaps this is the result of an initial impulse to copy real life behavior, but perhaps also it represents an effort to humanize the electronic contact. I personally feel that it's appropriate to thank someone for the time and energy put into something that neither could have done alone.

As to the phone call, at 3am all sorts of thoughts can go through one's mind, and if the caller says "sorry," you can go back to sleep in peace not wondering about what other tricks your enemies might have in store for you. Apologizing is polite. Polite is the opposite of rude.

[TMark]

I also wish to greet my opponents with a friendly "Hi" and thank them for the game afterwards. Last night, I had someone who stretched my patience somewhat. He made a mistake and lost a group, but the server was having lag and cut-off issues, so he just started passing every move. I presume if I passed, he would start marking all stones dead, so I kept playing moves, but he eventually ran out of time. Out of about 15 games he had played, at least 6 were unfinished. I have very many friends online and I play a lot of games with them; some greet me at across-the-board tournaments, but I hope that I never meet last night's opponent in "Real Life".

On a similar point, I used to play poker and always found that the person who suspected everyone of cheating was the one person most likely to cheat. The person who does not seem to care about politeness is the one most likely to be the rude bastard online.

Best wishes.

[Dusk Eagle]

I really don't think it's particularly impolite to not type anything to your opponent. I do generally type "hello" and "thx", but I know I wouldn't go to the bother of doing it if I was on an Android, for example. I also wouldn't do it if I weren't a native English speaker, or if I were sick, or many other reasons. So I would not think of my opponent as rude for simply not typing something.

[Li Kao]

I don't really understand why people care about the opponent saying Hi/Thanks. Personally I almost always say it, because I don't want to appear impolite. But I don't care if my opponent omits it. These formulaic greetings are completely devoid of meaning.

I think it only means something if you actually talk with your opponent. I'm usually too lazy to talk to my random auto-match opponents, unless they start the conversation.

[Stable]

Mior tweak - if your opponent started the review and left it's faster to just select view offline from the options. Also, the review will run more quickly like that rather than from the server (although obv. then you can't get anyone else to comment).

[gowan]

I don't really understand why people care about the opponent saying Hi/Thanks. Personally I almost always they it, because I don't want to appear impolite. But I don't care if my opponent omits it. These formulaic greetings are completely devoid of meaning.

I think it only means something if you actually talk with your opponent. I'm usually too lazy to talk to my random auto-match opponents, unless they start the conversation.

I wouldn't say they are devoid of meaning, they humanize the proceedings. Would you play a face to face game without any interaction with your opponent at all except to play moves? I doubt it. I would also say that I think saying "thank you for the game" or something similar is the most important thing. It's not a matter just of politeness, it is also respect for the game and for your opponent. The game deserves respect however rude and undeserving your opponent may be.

[mw42]

I don't really understand why people care about the opponent saying Hi/Thanks. Personally I almost always they it, because I don't want to appear impolite. But I don't care if my opponent omits it. These formulaic greetings are completely devoid of meaning.

I think it only means something if you actually talk with your opponent. I'm usually too lazy to talk to my random auto-match opponents, unless they start the conversation.

This is very similar to how I feel. I will say "hi" at the start of a match because I don't want to appear rude. It's an odd reason to welcome someone, in my opinion. I will say "thanks" after a match though the reason is different and genuine. Sometimes I forget to say either if I'm in a hurry or otherwise distracted.

Who was rude in this scenario: I once played a game on KGS in which I didn't welcome my opponent. After about move 4 he took a very long time to play a move, and I wondered at this. I made a silly comment, and he replied something like "I won't play against someone who doesn't welcome me." Now in my opinion he was being rude and obnoxious, and I being stubborn refused to welcome him and just waited patiently for him to move. About 10 minutes later he escaped.

EDIT: I don't think it is very polite either to make judgments without knowing the circumstances as many people seem quick to do. When I first started playing at KGS I resigned a game, but instead of clicking "Resign" I clicked "Close." I was then prompted if I wanted to resign, and I did and the game board was closed. My opponent had a friend or perhaps a student watching the game, and after I left he was talking about how rude I was for not saying thanks and that I was a bad person or a bad player. When I came back to the game (to thank my opponent because I didn't mean to close the board) I read all this, said "thanks" and left.

[entropi]

Alone the possibility that my opponent might care about greetings/thanks, makes them meaningful.

Just think how many "meaningless" things you do in your daily life only for the sake of politeness. This includes for example saying "hi.....bye" in an elevator. Keeping the engineering mindset, it is absolutely meaningless. But socially it is not.
Why trying to avoid them online? How much does it cost to type hi and thx?

On the other hand:
I personally don't like wishing luck to my opponent because I find it slightly hypocrite (pardon my spelling if wrong). I am playing against him -> if he is lucky, I am unlucky -> I perceive wishing luck a bit hypocrite -> but nevermind

[Chew Terr]

I really don't think it's particularly impolite to not type anything to your opponent. I do generally type "hello" and "thx", but I know I wouldn't go to the bother of doing it if I was on an Android, for example. I also wouldn't do it if I weren't a native English speaker, or if I were sick, or many other reasons. So I would not think of my opponent as rude for simply not typing something.

While I tend habitually towards politeness, Dusk has a point. It's worth noting that the jerk on the road who cut you off to take the freeway exit may have been trying to get his wife to the hospital nearby. As someone who tends to be really scatterbrained, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, in case they had a good reason (I.E. changing lanes often because they're lost).

Joaz, I hope the experience didn't sour you. Glad to hear you're on KGS, because I'd love to catch a game on there with you sometime.