106. kirby vs topazg

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topazg
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's fight. He can't cut, so he must run?
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Kirby »

I am seriously contemplating tenuki-ing to play around the center on the right (I'm not quite sure which point, yet, though):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x x . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . x 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


On one hand, I can't help but feel that such a move will get people to yell at me in hidden comments. I recall many a time when Bill Spight has called me out for ditching a stone that I've played earlier. Would this be another of those times?

On the other hand, I can't really see how such a play is bad for myself. I decided not to play yet, because I should try harder to see if I can see how such a tenuki could be bad. But I cannot play in a certain way just because I feel that kibitzers would want me to play that way. I must convince myself that a tenuki is bad, before deciding against it.

But to be honest, at the moment, a tenuki looks very appealing.

By the way, I think topazg's last move is a good way to move out, locally.
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Loons »

I think it is exemplary that Kirby is thinking deeply at this juncture. Decisions now shape the game.


More trivially (my strategic opinion);
topazg's prospects on the bottom makes splitting the right like this feel passive, I think. I would play K5 immediately even if I intended to go elsewhere. However, this situation seems to call for more finesse than I am capable of.

*Edit: I prefer white on this board, even if I find the situation hard.
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Post by EdLee »

Kirby wrote:I recall many a time when Bill Spight has called me out for ditching a stone that I've played earlier. Would this be another of those times?
Possibly. :)

If :b2: extend, this is pretty painful for B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . O . 2 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . 4 X 1 . . .
$$ | . . . O . X . 3 O , . .
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]

So :b2: diagonal-hit seems better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . O 2 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . X 1 . . .
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . .
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Loons »

Ed,
Your diagrams seem a little good for black to me ? I think to push black out ahead of him does not seem like the right exchange (my inclination is to move out with the diagonal move (kosumi?) and let black decide how to treat his weak group).
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Aphelion »

Kirby:
Please show us why you played that pincer :)
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Post by EdLee »

Loons,
Loons wrote:my inclination is to move out with the diagonal move (kosumi?) and let black decide how to treat his weak group).
Yes, my first feeling was :w12: as a kosumi at :w1: instead of the cap (a):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . a . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . .
$$ | . . . O . X . . W , . .
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------------[/go]
Keep B separated, let B run out with (a), let's fight.
But now that W has capped with (a) and made things heavy (for both B and W), W cannot tenuki now.
If W wanted to tenuki to play a big wedge on the right side, W could've done it earlier,
but now it's too late to give up :wc:. Locally, for the current board, I'm not sure what is
W's best play, but W cannot tenuki.
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Bill Spight »

Kirby wrote:I am seriously contemplating tenuki-ing to play around the center on the right (I'm not quite sure which point, yet, though):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x x . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . x 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


On one hand, I can't help but feel that such a move will get people to yell at me in hidden comments. I recall many a time when Bill Spight has called me out for ditching a stone that I've played earlier. Would this be another of those times?

On the other hand, I can't really see how such a play is bad for myself. I decided not to play yet, because I should try harder to see if I can see how such a tenuki could be bad. But I cannot play in a certain way just because I feel that kibitzers would want me to play that way. I must convince myself that a tenuki is bad, before deciding against it.

But to be honest, at the moment, a tenuki looks very appealing.

By the way, I think topazg's last move is a good way to move out, locally.


As the guy who coined the phrase, "When in doubt, tenuki," I should be glad. ;) But why be in doubt?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . W , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If the purpose of :w12: was to sacrifice :wc:, then sacrifice it, e. g., with :w14:. If the purpose was to fight, fight.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O B . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If you are going to tenuki, I think that :w12: was the time. White has made a small profit on the bottom side by preventing the :bc: stones from making an ideal extension, and it is not so clear what the best way to attack is.
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


OK, so I've thought about this for awhile, and this is what I've come up with. The reason I feel like tenuki-ing is because I am a move behind with playing my earlier move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Because I took the liberty of playing here, it is difficult to effectively attack white. That's because black has already jumped out, and if I chase him, black can always slide underneath my 4th line stone around the marked area:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . C . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Therefore, at this point, an attack on the stones will be rather soft. I still feel that the pincer is effective, because if I can make use of it later, black's stones are a bit awkwardly placed. Still, I do not think this is the time to make use of the stone.

But instead of tenuki-ing directly, I think that I need to get more value from the stone. With the move played, I can threaten to bring my stone to life, and get a stronger attack on his stones. If he ignores, the cut feels very good for me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X 8 . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


tl/dr: I want to get as much use out of my pincer stone as possible, but I cannot do this in a direct way since black is a move ahead in the local area.


Edit: I modified the last diagram, because I used the wrong number for the cutting stone.
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Kirby »

Aphelion wrote:Kirby:
Please show us why you played that pincer :)


To be honest, I rarely have a concrete plan on a move. Maybe this is a bad thing... :-) The rough idea at the time was that I do not want white to set up his stones nicely on the bottom. I think that that has been accomplished to some degree, but black may get some local profit if he captures my pincer stone.

I'd like to get as much profit as possible if that situation occurs.
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The two stones are expendable I think. This feels like the key shape point to me, so I'm playing it. If he extends, I'll have a good think, but I should be able to generate an interesting attack I hope. He can connect underneath, but it's not huge right now, and I can take K4 and generate some pretty formidable thickness. I hope this is the right decision!
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Kirby »

I almost want to post without thinking much, and play on the right side. I was debating whether I could tenuki or not before, but I definitely think that I can, now. The question is, if I do tenuki, is it better to play at 'a' or 'b'?:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


On one hand, black can get some good influence or thickness or whatever I should call it that is radiating from the bottom side. Territorially, it'd be nice to reduce this as much as possible, which leads me to thinking that I should play 'b', above.

But there's also the saying, "Don't approach too close to thickness"... Does that mean that I should play 'a' instead of 'b' in this position?

Regardless, globally, I think that the right side is extremely attractive - more attractive than the bottom for me IMO.
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The proverb says, "Don't play too close to thickness". So I was inclined to play as below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But what good is a proverb if I do not understand why it makes the board position better? I must accept my own rationale in choosing a move, and, well, this is my rationale:

Black usually has a couple of options in this area - to approach from below, or to approach from above. If I play right in the center, black usually chooses between 'a' and 'b', below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In this board position, if I were black, I think that I have potential to make something of the bottom right, so I will approach from below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Next, as white, I will probably extend upward. That's all dandy, and I might be able to invade the bottom right later... But it looks a bit good for black to me. When I invade, at the very least white will be working very hard in the area - which is not bad, I guess, but it makes me a bit nervous.

So ideally, I would like for black to approach from the top. If he approaches from the top, I make a base easily, and black's bottom right isn't looking too unmanageable. I can move on to bigger and better strategies.

So I would like to "provoke" topazg to play from the top, and give me what I want. That's why I'm playing one intersection lower than in the diagram immediately above:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, white can still approach from below, but he doesn't get as much:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White benefits more this way, I think.

So I guess with this move, I am saying, "OK. Approach from the bottom if you want to. That sounds good to me. Oh, you don't want to? Approach from the top, then. I feel good about that, too.". If I played one intersection harder, I would be saying, "OK. I hope you don't approach from the bottom, because I'll have to worry later.

After the game, I wonder what the kibitzing crowd feels about this move.
be immersed
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topazg
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, I'm cashing in. The outside influence here is really handy.


EDIT: Update to only highlight the last move
Kirby
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Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Post by Kirby »

Hmmm. I am thinking that topazg and I have differing opinions of priorities on this board. :scratch:

I'm not sure where to play, exactly. Should I play along the bottom, or is it too small? Should I continue along the left? Should I approach the top left? Should I make an extension along the left?
I'm not so sure about the best place to play right now, because I don't feel much pressure... Well, I guess I should try to come up with a plan...

I wonder if I can learn anything from topazg's style of playing here. I don't usually make thick moves like this.
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