5-4 approach to 3-4 stone, variation of one space low pincer

For lessons, as well as threads about specific moves, and anything else worth studying.
Post Reply
User avatar
cdybeijing
Lives in gote
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 am
Rank: IGS 2 dan
GD Posts: 0
Location: Shanghai, China
Has thanked: 96 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:

5-4 approach to 3-4 stone, variation of one space low pincer

Post by cdybeijing »

The following position arises after a variation of a relatively well known Japanese joseki. The marked black stone is to my knowledge a simplifying play that finishes the position temporarily.

I have two questions about the position: 1) What potential exists for white should he or she wish to play at a? 2) If black returns to the position in sente and takes b or c, how might white handle him or herself locally?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . a X B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 5-4 approach to 3-4 stone, variation of one space low pi

Post by Aphelion »

Is this really joseki? It looks terrible for White imo.
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: 5-4 approach to 3-4 stone, variation of one space low pi

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . a . 2 6 1 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 0 . . 4 b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is a normal joseki I believe ("a" and "b" after :b10:), so Black has opted for something different but it must be joseki for White.
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: 5-4 approach to 3-4 stone, variation of one space low pi

Post by topazg »

A commented pro game from my study group :)

User avatar
cdybeijing
Lives in gote
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 am
Rank: IGS 2 dan
GD Posts: 0
Location: Shanghai, China
Has thanked: 96 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:

Re: 5-4 approach to 3-4 stone, variation of one space low pi

Post by cdybeijing »

topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . a . 2 6 1 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 0 . . 4 b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is a normal joseki I believe ("a" and "b" after :b10:), so Black has opted for something different but it must be joseki for White.
You are of course right that the main move is 6 for black. Pros presumably don't play the marked black stone because they feel they can do better. The move was apparently suggested by Guo Juan as a simple way to settle the position (check Josekipedia for reference.)
Post Reply