105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

[topazg]

Indeed. In fact, Choi Cheolhan played it just the other day (move 61)

[sgf-full](;
WR[8d]
BR[9d]
RE[W+R]
FF[4]
SZ[19]
PW[Heo Yeongho]
GM[1]
DT[2011-03-10]
PB[Choi Cheolhan]
KM[6.5]
EV[3rd BC Card Cup]
RO[3]
SO[Mr. Kin]
;B[qd];W[dc];B[de];W[ce];B[dd];W[cd];B[ec];W[cf];B[df];W[dg];B[cc]
;W[db];B[bc];W[cb];B[cg];W[ch];B[bb];W[eb];B[bg];W[bf];B[bh];W[bd]
;B[fc];W[dh];B[ci];W[di];B[cj];W[fb];B[fe];W[dj];B[ck];W[gc];B[gd]
;W[hc];B[hf];W[el];B[dm];W[pp];B[gi];W[em];B[dn];W[fo];B[dq];W[fq]
;B[jp];W[hl];B[nq];W[qn];B[ho];W[hq];B[ep];W[go];B[iq];W[hp];B[pr]
;W[qq];B[ip];W[hn];B[no];W[oc];B[pe];W[pi];B[nd];W[lo];B[lq];W[nn]
;B[on];W[oo];B[nm];W[mn];B[pk];W[pn];B[oi];W[oh];B[oj];W[pg];B[nh]
;W[ng];B[mh];W[mg];B[lg];W[me];B[nc];W[lh];B[mj];W[nb];B[od];W[pj]
;B[ok];W[lc];B[qh];W[ph];B[kg];W[pb];B[qg];W[qf];B[pf];W[qk];B[rf]
;W[rj];B[pc];W[ob];B[qb];W[li];B[jh];W[lj];B[lk];W[kk];B[ll];W[jj]
;B[kl];W[ik];B[om];W[np];B[mi];W[gg];B[hd];W[id];B[ie];W[jd];B[dk]
;W[fj];B[fi];W[ej];B[fg];W[fh];B[gh];W[ff];B[eh];W[eg];B[mp];W[mo]
;B[gf];W[fh];B[hr];W[gr];B[fg];W[dr];B[cr];W[qr];B[ef];W[nr];B[mr]
;W[oq];B[mq];W[or];B[ir];W[er];B[bq];W[io];B[kr];W[ba];B[ql];W[rl]
;B[qm];W[rm];B[kd];W[ke];B[kc];W[ld];B[mb];W[mc];B[je];W[kb];B[kf]
;W[le];B[pa];W[lb];B[en];W[jl])[/sgf-full]

[emerus]

<my mistake - removed>

So, while [P4 is] unusual in modern games

I just want to mention that somehow the diagonal has gotten a reputation as an "old move" among amateurs (probably Hikaru no Go?), but it isn't actually. I used GoGoD to search games from 1990 to the present, and found it was the second most popular move:

$$B Most common responses, 1990-2011
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . W . . . c
$$ | . . X , . . . a .
$$ | . . . b . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Most common responses, 1990-2011
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . W . . . c
$$ | . . X , . . . a .
$$ | . . . b . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

a - 2090 games
b - 1860 games
c - 1109 games
plus a bunch of other stuff.

Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.

[EdLee]

Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.

I thought this was a closed comments game?

[emerus]

$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 0 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 0 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
GN[]DT[2011-03-23]PC

[http://lifein19x19.com/]AW[dd][qo][cp][gq]AB[qc][ep][op][pq]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/

]PL[B]
(;B[fo]C[I think this is the simplest move and right idea - but my move would be at e2.]MN[9]
(;W[cm]
;B[hp]
(;W[iq]
;B[kq]C[I like black.])
(;W[dq]
;B[eq]C[I dont see a good white move to use

g3.]))
(;W[dq]C[I'm leaning towards just territory.]
;B[hp]
;W[fr]
;B[in])
(;W[go]
;B[gn]
;W[gp]C[I dont

know some of the other variations for this. But I really like the common line here -]
;B[hn]
;W[eq]))
(;B[er]
;W[dn]
;B[fo]
;W[jq]C[I feel black has some more potential this way.]))[/sgf-full]

Ugh, forum posting is killing me. I can't get any post right.

[emerus]

Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.

I thought this was a closed comments game?

Oh woops. No, I just misquoted the wrong post. Didn't even realize or read it, though I guess I saw it.

Sorry fellas....

@emerus
Just so that you don't feel left out with all the hidden comments directed at me

@mnemonic

Aw, how sweet. It's cool that this is an observed malkovich. Your comments must be pretty good.

[EdLee]

emerus:

It's OK. Browser mis-click happens. I found it dangerous to use the "quote" button in my own Malkovich game.

[Mnemonic]

$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't like this move. It looks odd and I don't think it is joseki (although I'm hardly an expert on that) The problem is, most of my moves result in an shapeless, eyeless, floating group for black.

$$Bcm11 Most Ideas still revolve around (a) and (b) with maybe a kikashi first around the shaded area
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O ? . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 Most Ideas still revolve around (a) and (b) with maybe a kikashi first around the shaded area
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O ? . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Bcm11 looks ok, but I'm more woried about the crosscut
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 looks ok, but I'm more woried about the crosscut
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Bcm11 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 8 O 3 X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 2 6 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 8 O 3 X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 2 6 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Bcm11 Can't really say I like this variation, but it's probably the best I can come up with
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X 4 . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 Can't really say I like this variation, but it's probably the best I can come up with
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X 4 . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Bcm11 The problem with any plays here is that white can ignore them. And now?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 The problem with any plays here is that white can ignore them. And now?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Bcm11 better shape?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . 3 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 better shape?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . 3 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Conclusion:

[topazg]

Hidden until the corner is resolved, then for Mnemonic

You don't like the following?

$$Bcm11 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 8 O 3 X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 2 6 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 8 O 3 X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 2 6 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Continuation perhaps:

$$Bcm21 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X 3 5 7 . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X O O 1 O 6 8 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X 3 5 7 . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X O O 1 O 6 8 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That's not that great a corner, and what thickness you have - and in sente! I'd take it, anyway

[emerus]

$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
GN[]DT[2011-03-24]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]AW[dd][go][qo][cp][gq]AB[qc][fo][ep][op][pq]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/

]PL[B]
(;B[cn]
(;W[eq]
;B[dq]
;W[dp]
;B[fq]
;W[er]
;B[fr]
;W[dr]
;B[do]C[My first instinct sucks. White can resign.])
(;W[do]
(;B[dn]C[This seems unreasonable for black.]
;W[eo]
;B[en]
;W[fp]
;B[fn]
;W[eq]
;B[gn]
;W[ho]
;B[cf])
(;B[fm]C[Too thin. What else can B do.]
(;W[dn]
;B[cm]
;W[dm]
;B[cl]
;W[fp]
;B[fq]
;W[gp]
;B[eo]
;W[dl]
;B[dk]
;W[ek]
(;B[el]
;W[ck]
;B[dj]
;W[bk]
;B[fk])
(;B[dj]
;W[fl]))
(;W[eq]
(;B[dq]
;W[fp]
;B[eo]
;W[dp]
;B[er]
;W[fq]
;B[cq]
;W[dn]
;B[em]
;W[bq])
(;B[dp]
;W[dq]
;B[co]
;W[bp]
;B[gn]
;W[ho])
(;B[fp]
;W[fq]
;B[dp]
;W[dq]
;B[co]
;W[gp]
;B[gn]
;W[bp])))
(;B[gn]
;W[gp]LB[fn:B][eq:A]C[I think this reverts and spells trouble for black. But white needs to find the right way to use the weak points.]
(;B[dq]
(;W[dn]
;B[fn]
;W[cl]
;B[kp]C[Nice for black.])
(;W[fn]
;B[en]
(;W[fm]
(;B[em]
;W[eo]
;B[fp]
;W[cq])
(;B[eo]
;W[em]
;B[dm]))
(;W[eo]
;B[fm]
;W[fp])))
(;B[hn]
;W[fn]
;B[en]
;W[eo]
;B[fm]
;W[fp]C[I don't mind black. White is a bit bigger than joseki so it's OK.]))
(;B[fn]C[So black might protect one weakness.]
;W[dn]
;B[cm]
;W[dm]
(;B[dl]
;W[cl]
;B[ck]
;W[bl]
(;B[bk]
;W[el]
;B[dk]
;W[co]
;B[bm]
;W[bn]
;B[al]
;W[fm]C[Too good for white.])
(;B[dk]
;W[bk]
;B[bj]
;W[bm]C[Does black have prospects to attack whites two stones?]))
(;B[cl]
;W[dl]
;B[dk]
;W[ek]
;B[dj]
;W[fl]
;B[gn]
;W[ho]
;B[hn]
;W[io]))
(;B[dq]C[The other weakness....]
(;W[fn]
;B[eo]
;W[en]
;B[dn])
(;W[dn]
(;B[dm]
;W[cm]
;B[cl]
;W[bm]
;B[dl]
;W[bl]
;B[bk]
;W[bn]
;B[gn]
;W[ho]
;B[en])
(;B[cm]
;W[dm]
;B[cl]
;W[fn])))))
(;B[gn]LB[ho:B][gp:A]C[Normal joseki. A emphasizes territory. B - the outside.]
(;W[gp]
;B[cn]
;W[eq]C[The connect works in this shape.])
(;W[ho]
;B[cn]
;W[eq]
;B[dq]
;W[dp]
;B[fq]
;W[er]
;B[fr]LB[gp:A]C[So the A point is vital for this to work.])))[/sgf-full]

This is an interesting shape. I feel that white will come out slightly on top but the results are dynamic for both players.

obs:

Is using full SGF files OK or do you prefer diagrams? I might be getting too carried away with crappy variations. Let me know.

[yoyoma]

emerus:

You posted that Black's joseki move is G6. But when Black didn't do that, why didn't you consider any variations for white adding a move in that area.

[emerus]

emerus:

You posted that Black's joseki move is G6. But when Black didn't do that, why didn't you consider any variations for white adding a move in that area.

Black is making quite a severe attack on my corner (threatening to capture in 1 move) and with thin shape so I feel like it would be submissive to allow him to fix his shape for a bit of influence or a wall around f6/g6.


Also, the original idea with my joseki choice is for territory and to prevent black from pressing me and working well with p4. I don't want to change my plan unless I can find something special.

[EdLee]

Mnemonic:

The problem is, most of my moves result in an shapeless, eyeless, floating group for black.

What a fantastic motivation to study why is a joseki move!

$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 1 . .
$$ | . . O , X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 1 . .
$$ | . . O , X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------[/go]

[Shaddy]

emerus,

I prefer diagrams. It's difficult to make sure I see all the variations in an sgf, and the possibility of missing one is annoying.

[hman]

emerus,

I prefer diagrams. It's difficult to make sure I see all the variations in an sgf, and the possibility of missing one is annoying.

Also, with diagrams from time to time you can go and open all the hide Tags, print the whole thing to PDF for archival or for paper and old fashoned perusal and study.

[Mnemonic]

$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Bc A wall in gote with W getting 5th line territory?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 2 X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X 4 . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc A wall in gote with W getting 5th line territory?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 2 X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X 4 . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Bc This is basicall what I'm planing. Marked exchange obviosly bad for black.\n (Why haven't I thought of that move before?)
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . 3 . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc This is basicall what I'm planing. Marked exchange obviosly bad for black.\n (Why haven't I thought of that move before?)
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . 3 . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]