Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

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Chew Terr
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Chew Terr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 141 W68 B62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O W O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I'll admit, I'm not too confident that I have the plan, here. However, it looks like we're going to want the liberties from this move for the race ahead. If black plays here, the fight looks significantly harder, so I think it's necessary.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Younger brother is totally on the wrong path. We can't win the liberties race. Sooner or later he is going to see this. Maybe then he will play a big point below.
The worst that he has done is burn a big ko threat. It is sente. ( 50+ point swing if they ignore it ) So the worst that happens is that we lose a ko threat. It costs two points to change it. Is a ko threat worth two points? I think not. Therefore...


I approve.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

daniel_the_smith wrote:Didn't Violence's correction cost 4? Since I hadn't previously corrected that move?


Ahh, you're right. So it is white 71, black 62?
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Did not expect that move to get approved...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by jts »

Damn, I was gleefully thinking for a second that I wasn't the only little brother who needs to be corrected... but this can't be anything! We have six liberties and they have four. It's keshier than herpes.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

BTW, if it makes sense for me to let a move slide rather than give up two points, it is doubly true for Shapenaji, for it costs us four points if he corrects.
I trust younger brotherto see the light real soon.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by shapenaji »

Approved.
as Joaz said, not worth changing
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by jts »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X B C X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Rightttttttttttt.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm143 Move 143 W68 B62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 9 . 2 X 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 5 6 O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 4 X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X 7 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O 8 X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O 0 X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I still suspect these would be better used as ko threats... but I am now a little bit worried, since I'm now reading that we only just win the semeai. Can they start a ko with C19? If so, we're in deep trouble. It may make sense to respond to E19 with J16.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Approved.

ShapeNaji didn't think it was worth 4 points to fix this?

We win the race every way I read it. I don't see why squeezing us now would be worth more than the ko threats they're losing.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Violence »

Approved
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Count liberties...please, god, make him count liberties...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Chew Terr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . W O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The proper point is either here or one above, I think, and I like this more. Falsifying eyes for fun... and profit? This prevents an eye above or below, keeping it a liberty race between b's big group here and the group we have to the left. We do not have a ton of liberties...
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I don't approve.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B64
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . C O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In its simplest form, the libertes race looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 9 5 X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 2 W O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X 7 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 8 O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O 4 X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O 6 X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

They can tenuki to the big play at 1 at the bottom, and then still come back and win the liberties race. ( There are more complicated variations, but those don't work either. )

Although, in Chew's defense, the dual approvals last move can be misleading.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Magicwand »

for obs only:
in my opinion it is sente. there was no need to correct that move..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm143 :b50: = :w45:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 6 . 1 X X 2 X 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 4 W O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X 0 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 7 O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O 9 X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by shapenaji »

Not Approved
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B65
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . W . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz is right that the top just wastes threats, but his move on the bottom isn't ambitious enough imo... If we want to use those threats, we have to stretch further
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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