33. Magicwand (3d) vs. zinger (1d)

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Magicwand
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by Magicwand »

i got what i wanted so far.
i am attacking black dragon.
i am not being attacked.

all i need is a little edge that will give me sente or points.
below is too thin for white. but possible variation.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 1 O 2 O O . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . 3 O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


below variation would be nice..but i dont think it will happen....
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . 2 . O . O O 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 1 , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by zinger »

No move yet, just some thinking.

I am sorely tempted to cut, but I must carefully evaluate his threat:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c white's threat
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 4 , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . 3 . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can black fight his way out? I must think about this a while before I play.
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by topazg »

Can anyone tell me why that bottom isn't unconditionally alive for Black? I can see sequences that force him to let go of a stone or two if White plays locally first, but I can't find a sequence where Black just dies if he cannot run out to the middle - two internal eyes seem guaranteed one way or the other regardless?
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by zinger »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 1 , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think white's threat was too strong. I must move out with the right side group.
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by zinger »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Weak groups are still the focus of this game. I outflank his with mine. This also casts some influence over the left side.
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

okok..he wants to fight.
when you attack weak group one must be careful..they might counter attack..
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by zinger »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X 2 O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 1 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 3 . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


meh, this is looking worse as I go. I am having to make so many concessions to the weakness of my bottom group. I really wish now that I had just played at N4 instead of P2 when I first invaded the bottom. My reading was that I could live unconditionally, but that was wrong, and I have been paying for it and will keep on doing so. grrrr
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

that was something i didnt expect
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by zinger »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


... and the brawl continues. No fear! The worst than can happen is I lose a game of Go.
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . W . X . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i have to get this move in without much damage. then i will be ok...
middle white is extreamly thin but i think they will be ok. (not really sure)
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by zinger »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am completely baffled now, I don't know what to do. It's too complicated and I can't see what will happen. Ususally when I get that feeling I end up resigning within 20 moves or so :sad:
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O W X . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Harleqin
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by Harleqin »

White's centre around M12 is too thin.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
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zinger
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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger

Post by zinger »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Must do this else or else no point in the last move.
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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