For lessons, as well as threads about specific moves, and anything else worth studying.
dedroid
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Posts: 46 Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:48 pmGD Posts: 0KGS: dedroidHas thanked: 4 times Been thanked: 10 times
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by dedroid Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:35 pm
hello, i was playing a game and this move came up and i can't find reference for it anywhere, so i was hoping i could get some help here.
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$so far i've thought about these two moves
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$but i don't really know where to go from here
mw42
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by mw42 Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:30 am
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$I'd play this move and be satisfied. Black's approach stone seems awkward now and if he wants to live on top he has to crawl. Separating seems important, but
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$This move is immediately bad shape for white, and it leaves black with (a) which threatens to connect and helps his shape on the side.
This move is almost definitely not joseki, it reeks of a trick play to me so maybe someone more educated in those matters can be more helpful.
Shaddy
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by Shaddy Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:44 am
mw42 wrote: $$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$I'd play this move and be satisfied. Black's approach stone seems awkward now and if he wants to live on top he has to crawl. Separating seems important, but
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$This move is immediately bad shape for white, and it leaves black with (a) which threatens to connect and helps his shape on the side.
This move is almost definitely not joseki, it reeks of a trick play to me so maybe someone more educated in those matters can be more helpful.
I'd definitely play the second diagram. I can't find anything actually wrong with it, and the first one sets my trick play alarm off.
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$For example, what now?
mw42
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by mw42 Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:55 am
$$Bm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm1I don't know, maybe just attach underneath? If black pushes to make a wall, it has a weakness at (a) so maybe this is not so good.
$$Bm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm1If black plays hane then white can cross-cut. He has a two-stone wall to help him in a fight.
mw42
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by mw42 Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:07 am
Also it looks like the intention of
might be to seal white in, if that is the case perhaps this is playable (
the assumption being the outside is important )
$$Bm1
still has a lot of aji...
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . Q Q 5 1 4 .
$$ | . . . , 3 2 6 .
$$ | . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm1 $$Bm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm1
Last edited by
mw42 on Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Harleqin
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by Harleqin Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:33 am
I actually had a similar situation in a recent game of mine.
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$I played
, and Black took
. I think that it is not easy to answer.
Do you think that this is sufficient for White?
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$How urgent do you think is
?
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
Solomon
Gosei
Posts: 1848 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:21 pmRank: AGA 5dGD Posts: 0KGS: Capsule 4dTygem: 치킨까스 5dLocation: Bellevue, WAHas thanked: 90 times Been thanked: 835 times
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by Solomon Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:37 am
mw42 wrote: Also it looks like the intention of :B1: might be to seal white in, if that is the case perhaps this is playable (the assumption being the outside is important)
$$Bm1
still has a lot of aji...
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . Q Q 5 1 4 .
$$ | . . . , 3 2 6 .
$$ | . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm1 $$Bm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm1 This is simply terrible for White, unplayable.
aurik
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by aurik Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:43 am
Harleqin wrote: I actually had a similar situation in a recent game of mine.
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$This perhaps exposes the trick play? The normal joseki I see when 3 is played is usually:
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Obviously at this point responding to a at b would be a grave error:
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$However, your W4 looks to be an excellent result for W.
Keep in mind, I am frequently wrong.
dedroid
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by dedroid Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:03 pm
thanks for all the help! all of this is really helpful.
Bill Spight
Honinbo
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by Bill Spight Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:18 pm
Hmmm. What about something like this?
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc threatens 2.
Compare with this:
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc -
is joseki, but then the exchange of
and
is bad for Black.
The Adkins Principle:At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
dedroid
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by dedroid Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:42 pm
I wouldn't mind that result as black. black gets sente and some nice corner.
Dusk Eagle
Gosei
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by Dusk Eagle Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:51 pm
but then the exchange of
and
is bad for Black.
It is? It looks like a bad exchange for white to me.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
might be to seal white in, if that is the case perhaps this is playable (the assumption being the outside is important)
still has a lot of aji...
, and Black took 
. I think that it is not easy to answer.
?
threatens 2.
is joseki, but then the exchange of 
and 
is bad for Black.