Teamovitch #1

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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . B . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


E8 is the proper move, of course. But this peep should improve our position. And I'm sure that someone will nominate it again next move.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Redundant »

Connect
tj86430
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by tj86430 »

Redundant wrote:Connect

I can't think of anything else. To honor the format I will suggest something else.... (throwing dice) .... M13.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 4 O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Joaz, stop killing the move numbers :P :P

Only move, the resistance of pushing through the peep is, well, silly.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by fwiffo »

Black suggestion.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 4 O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Like I was saying, we need to follow up the shoulder hit with this unless we have any other freebie moves anywhere.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The right move, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. And it looks so much better when we have our previously played peep as a potential ladder breaker.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , 2 3 . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 4 5 . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Redundant »

Discuss. I see these options.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . d . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . e . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O a . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . b . . . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

For observers:
It is probably just a demented fantasy, but I'm looking at things like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . 0 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . 9 . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O 5 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 7 . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 4 O 1 . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 8 . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 2 X X . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 4 . O O X . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O X O O . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 O X X . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O X 7 . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 6 . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by tj86430 »

Redundant wrote:Discuss. I see these options.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . d . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . e . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O a . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . b . . . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For some reason I am tempted by:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is not my suggestion (yet), but to add to the discussion.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Chew Terr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . d . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . e . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O a . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . b . . . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My suggestion is 'a'. If we play any of the other options besides 'c', I feel like black will play there like a shot. I feel like black can't stop to play 'c' yet, so let's solidify what we can while threatening shrinking the bottom left from multiple sides. They're undercut on the bottom right, undercut at 'b', and have TJ's favorite push. Basically, black's not going to get a ton down there unless we tenuki enough to let them. This works well with what we've got, however, and black can't afford to extend too far on the top because of our overpowering thickness. For example, if we take 'a' and black takes 'd', I will probably immediately recommend the M17 invasion, as it does have an effect on the corner, and we can threaten the new weak group on top. If black extends less far, we can probably shoulder-hit their stone and end up with more.

I would actually recommend M17 immediately, except that I prefer solidifying our left side groups before moves like D12 become more intimidating than they are.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by tj86430 »

I just realized I haven't suggested anything. To keep this going I suggest M16.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Jedo »

bump?!
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Redundant »

Chew's move is probably best ... but I vote c18.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O 6 . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The three stones around D13 have a lot of aji, so allowing Black to make something in the lower left is probably worth the large scale eradication of these stones.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by tj86430 »

welcome back, captain!
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