115 - robinz v. 1986

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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

For Ed lee
It's alive for now it's flexible & it still has room to run
but my groups can be split at the bottom

So after he connects against the peep I can cut in to the corner & capture the stone to make easy life

He might jump out to the right from his corner and I would have to contain him
And he would be taking alot of territory

And that pretty much the jist of it

I might find a new sequence tomorrow and change my plans I'm still undecided I been playin defense this week and I'm dying to get back on offense

but there is a time and a place for everything
standing still means going backwards
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

1986,
1986 wrote:I'm dying to get back on offense
You also mentioned counter-attacking his corner;
could you show some sequences of what exactly you mean by "attack" and "offense"?
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm89 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X 1 X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I have updated the prisoner count - this seems to be the approved way to do it, to avoid confusion :)

The obvious move, and indeed, after some reading, I have to conclude that it's the only move. I bothered reading because I was so tempted to go ahead with the cut at E6 - thinking that, if I can cut off his group there and keep it to one eye, my centre group was strong enough to win any capturing race. The trouble is, I then saw that he can get himself two eyes for the group like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm89 Prisoner Count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X 3 X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . 5 X 2 X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . 4 . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . 1 . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

(if I omit :b91:, he cuts there and my 5 stones on the left have too few liberties, and if I omit :b93: he connects underneath). I have a few other options involving playing C8 to try to falsify the potential eye at B7 (while also threatening to capture black's 3 stones), but it doesn't seem to work (largely because black can play E7, protecting against the capture, in sente).

So I'm just going to keep my life simple and play the obvious response. I'm not sure white gains all that much in this exchange - with F7 there he can't escape towards the centre. And he now really does have to protect against E6. Unfortunately, contrary to what I was saying yesterday, I don't think I can tenuki after he does (as desparate as I am to play M17 before white exploits my open skirt on top), because, despite all the stones I have surrounding, I find myself unable to read out a good counter to white hitting the vital point at G9. (And I don't think this last exchange changes any of the sequences I was reading to that effect.) I'm not sure exactly where to play though - G9 itself just looks so horribly small and submissive, and most of the alternatives seem to leave white with forcing moves (and are still gote)...
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm90 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]





Most likely something like this
These are common sequences it gives black territory and white life

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm90 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | 3 1 X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O X O . 5 . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . 4 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
standing still means going backwards
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 1 X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I wasn't expecting this yet, but I do have to respond and it does at least gain a few points for him, so why not? As I said earlier, I'm pretty sure I have to respond once again when he captures, so he keeps sente. I'm at least grateful I don't have anything to think about on this move - I will have quite a lot to think about shortly.
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Post by EdLee »

Hidden until the end-game,
For beginners:
robinz wrote:so why not?
Because :w90: is sente :), or else B is dead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm90 :b91: tenuki
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . X . . .
$$ | . O O . . . . . .
$$ | . X O X . . . . .
$$ | . 1 X O O O . . .
$$ | . 3 X O X O . . .
$$ | . . 4 X X 5 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
This sequence is a good idea because (a) and (b) are miai for W,
so W takes advantage in sente and can play tenuki after :w92::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm90
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . O X O O O O . .
$$ | . O X X . X X X .
$$ | . . X O X . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . . . .
$$ | . a . O . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . X . . .
$$ | . O O . b . . . .
$$ | 3 B O X . . . . .
$$ | . 1 X O O O . . .
$$ | . 2 X O X O . . .
$$ | . . . X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------[/go]
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ez4u
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Re:

Post by ez4u »

EdLee wrote:Hidden until the end-game,
For beginners:
robinz wrote:so why not?
Because :w90: is sente :), or else B is dead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm90 :b91: tenuki
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . X . . .
$$ | . O O . . . . . .
$$ | . X O X . . . . .
$$ | . 1 X O O O . . .
$$ | . 3 X O X O . . .
$$ | . . 4 X X 5 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
This sequence is a good idea because (a) and (b) are miai for W,
so W takes advantage in sente and can play tenuki after :w92::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm90
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . O X O O O O . .
$$ | . O X X . X X X .
$$ | . . X O X . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . . . .
$$ | . a . O . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . X . . .
$$ | . O O . b . . . .
$$ | 3 B O X . . . . .
$$ | . 1 X O O O . . .
$$ | . 2 X O X O . . .
$$ | . . . X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------[/go]


I am not sure that I agree. After W3 below, Black should push at B4. White can take away the corner eyes with W5 etc., but B8 destroys the White bottom territory. Black gets full value for the cutting stone, which will limit White's ability to respond here. Who has done better here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . O X O O O O . .
$$ | . O X X . X X X .
$$ | . . X O X . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . . . .
$$ | . a . O . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . X . . .
$$ | . O O . b . . . .
$$ | 3 B O X . . . . .
$$ | . 1 X O O O . . .
$$ | 7 2 X O X O 8 . .
$$ | . 5 6 X X 4 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------[/go]


If B4, W5, B6 does White have to connect (in which case W1 has become gote instead of the expected sente)? If White plays elsewhere with W7, the B8, B10 combo threatens a ko for life on the left with "a" or the destruction of the bottom territory while harassing White with some choice of "b".
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W :w7: tenuki
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . O X O O O O . .
$$ | . O X X . X X X .
$$ | . . X O X . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . . . .
$$ | . a . O . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . X . . .
$$ | . O O . 0 . . . .
$$ | 3 B O X . . . b .
$$ | . 1 X O O O . . .
$$ | . 2 X O X O 9 8 .
$$ | . 6 . X X 4 5 b .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------[/go]


Is W1 here a better choice, relying on the miai situation for the left side White stones? If Black secures the corner with B2, White can test the situation with 3, which threatens to connect up the left side with "a" while also increasing the corner aji.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . O X O O O O . .
$$ | . O X X . X X X .
$$ | . . X O X . . . .
$$ | a . X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | 3 . O . . X . . .
$$ | . O O . b . . . .
$$ | . X O X . . . . .
$$ | 2 . X O O O . . .
$$ | . . X O X O . . .
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------[/go]
Dave Sigaty
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- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

It feels good to be back home I should be Abel to make more moves a day now give me a minute I'll post my next move
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm92 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is going pretty much according to plan with my last sequence, lets see if he follows me around,
its looking bad for white right now, currently  im about 15 points behind, 

So now is a good time to start counting points to determine the value of my moves, i remeber reading some book 
where the endgame was played out perfect it was inspiring 

since im back home i should have more varitations and explinations for you guys, so we can get this baby going a liltte faster
standing still means going backwards
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Post by EdLee »

Hidden until lower left corner completely finished (including the end-game),
For beginners: here, just take is better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . X X X . .
$$ | . . . O . . .
$$ | . . O . . X .
$$ | . O O . . . .
$$ | 1 B O X . . .
$$ | . O X O O O .
$$ | . X X O X O .
$$ | . . . X X . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ +--------------[/go]
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm93 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 1 X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]



Wow. I'm genuinely stunned. Surely capturing the stone was the only sensible move for white here? (Indeed, I ought to have offered a trigger, but I got lazy, and didn't want to because neither of us have done so yet in this game.) As I already said, after that I still needed a move to defend the corner (and had just about decided it would be this one at A3 - F2 was also somewhat tempting, but then white's block at G2 still seems to be sente), but now I get to make it in sente! (Well, it's not absolutely sente - the difference between white capturing my stone and me capturing his two is relatively small at this stage, but locally it is so.) If he captures now, I can now happily tenuki - that cut at E6 still looks pretty severe (and definitely sente), and then I can get M17 in sente, and then who knows, perhaps R2... *rubs hands in glee* :lol:

[I reserve the right to take back my glee when I find out what white's cunning plan is though :roll:]
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Post by EdLee »

robinz & 1986,
(For beginners also.) :b93: is one reason just taking was better than :w92:.
You can read Post #145 now.
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm94 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


OK here's my thought process
forget those two stones for right now and block him from coming into my right side so easily

this is unacceptable 
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm94 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . 2 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


but what about those that group if he takes those two stones that group is in danger,

eh, not really it still can live the only thing im concered with is move number 99 in this sequence, thats what im looking at

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm94 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . 6 . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O 5 4 . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | 2 X O X 3 . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


this is good for black also

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm94 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . 4 X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | 2 O O . 3 5 6 8 . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . 7 . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


this is the best sequence for me

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm94 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . 5 7 9 . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . 4 . 6 8 . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . 3 X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


i have been thinking about playing p11 just to pick a fight
i really wanna see his respones maybe it could be usefull 


heres another variaion

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm94 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . 7 , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . 9 . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 6 . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . 3 X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | 2 O O . 5 4 . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


i dont really like this either
hmmmmnn...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm94 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . 5 . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | 2 O O . 3 4 . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


i got an idea i'll explain later
lets get the game moving
standing still means going backwards
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Aphelion
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by Aphelion »

1986:
If that point is so important to block, why did you not play there before? You must have known that Black could play the way he did. Now you lose 2 stones instead of 1. It is important to be consistent in a go game, particularly when its only just 1 move of thinking ahead.
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm95 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]



Yet another surprising move from MHO. I had trouble deciding between this simple capture and the cut at E6. Playing the former, I expect white to play at E6 to connect his groups, then I get sente to play elsewhere (M17, almost certainly). Whereas, playing E6 now, I would expect white to capture at A5 himself - then, as far as I can read I need to play another move in the corner (looks like the hane at E1 kills, to me), but then white needs B8 (or similar) to save his own left-hand group, and once again I have sente. So the only question is which of the following results I prefer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm95 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . 5 . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . 4 . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . 1 . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | 2 X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm95 Prisoner Count :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . 3 . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . 2 . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | O O X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


There's no question that in the latter, which I've now played, I have more points. But in the former, which I came very close to playing, white's groups are cut apart, so I could hope in the longer term to be able to put more pressure on his F2 group this way. In other words, it would be a sacrifice of certain short-term gain for a possibly greater long term one. I decided in the end to just take the instant cash though, as I wouldn't be that confident of making all that many gains in the other scenario, and it also gives black virtually no more sente moves (or ko threats) against the corner, when there would have been several in the other scenario. Plus, if I'm taking sente into the next phase of the game, I start to feel ahead for the first time for a long while in this game, so keeping things simple and grabbing points seems the best option :)
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