Fairbairn's Old Fuseki vs New Fuseki now available

[kirkmc]

Robert, you're mistaken, especially because you're considering PDFs and ebooks as two different items.

I just published a new ebook:

http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/scrivener-2

As you can see from the site, you can download it in PDF, epub and Mobi formats, and you can also get printed versions. These are PoD versions, and most people don't buy the printed books, but my point is more that publishers generally sell in multiple electronic formats (PDF and various ebook formats).

FYI, plenty of people pay for the PDF ebooks that we sell on Take Control books. To be frank, I make more money, in far less time, than I've made for the dozen or so print books I've written. (This is, in part, because Take Control splits royalties, unlike print publishers, but since the distribution model is different, this makes sense.) As for piracy, sure, there's some, but it doesn't seem to stop sales. You can't necessarily apply this to the broader book market, but you could say that this is a niche similar to that of go books (though sales are substantially higher, I would guess).

Note that PDFs can have DRM.

[RobertJasiek]

I don't doubt that some e-publishers offer download of several formats but that is not the norm. Especially in Germany I read about different file formats everywhere. (With the exception of scientific literature, which tends to be PDF.)

I guess that some sorts of books sell even better as ebooks than they would as books. For the go market, this still has to be proven / tried.

How much money you make depends, uh, on the book topic and the percentage you get. The, say, novel or computer advice book market gives only ca. 3% - 7% to the author. Of course, he earns much more if uses a different way of distribution like you do. 7% is nothing if the print run is small (typical for English go books), so being one's own publisher changes this. (Also some creative workers in other fields, e.g., singers, have noticed this.)

I need to inform myself about DRM for PDFs. OTOH, I hate DRM as a consumer. It feels like a punishment for being an honest customer. How does DRM work? With a password? What prevents people from circulating files together with the passwords? A writer is not the police and does not want to hunt customers. So while DRM might work technically to some extent, it is not being nice to the customers. I believe more in mutual trust. If the blue ray industry trusts me and omits copy protection, then I trust that industry (that it does produce easy to use media) and will buy some films. (Yes, like this it works. I do not possess any blue ray film so far. The music industry has already learnt its lesson: tough copy protection drives previously honest consumers into the piracy market.) Thus I guess I'd rather start with a plain PDF book (a quickly written one so that the risk of wasted effort is limited) and see if there is a consumer market for that or piracy kills the market.

[kirkmc]

I don't doubt that some e-publishers offer download of several formats but that is not the norm. Especially in Germany I read about different file formats everywhere. (With the exception of scientific literature, which tends to be PDF.)

I guess that some sorts of books sell even better as ebooks than they would as books. For the go market, this still has to be proven / tried.

How much money you make depends, uh, on the book topic and the percentage you get. The, say, novel or computer advice book market gives only ca. 3% - 7% to the author. Of course, he earns much more if uses a different way of distribution like you do. 7% is nothing if the print run is small (typical for English go books), so being one's own publisher changes this. (Also some creative workers in other fields, e.g., singers, have noticed this.)

I need to inform myself about DRM for PDFs. OTOH, I hate DRM as a consumer. It feels like a punishment for being an honest customer. How does DRM work? With a password? What prevents people from circulating files together with the passwords? A writer is not the police and does not want to hunt customers. So while DRM might work technically to some extent, it is not being nice to the customers. I believe more in mutual trust. If the blue ray industry trusts me and omits copy protection, then I trust that industry (that it does produce easy to use media) and will buy some films. (Yes, like this it works. I do not possess any blue ray film so far. The music industry has already learnt its lesson: tough copy protection drives previously honest consumers into the piracy market.) Thus I guess I'd rather start with a plain PDF book (a quickly written one so that the risk of wasted effort is limited) and see if there is a consumer market for that or piracy kills the market.

Standard royalties in the US are around 10%. You can get a bit more once you sell more books (ie, the first 10,000 at 10%, the next 5,000 at 12%, and so on). But you don't write for royalties, you write for your advance. Very few authors earn out their advance (sell more books than what the advance covers in royalties).

DRM for PDFs works with an Adobe system. I don't know much about it, because I've never had a PDF that was protected with DRM.

It's true that if you write shorter books, PDF is a good format. You can sell them cheaper, and make your money quickly, and not worry too much about piracy.

[John Fairbairn]

Standard royalties in the US are around 10%. You can get a bit more once you sell more books (ie, the first 10,000 at 10%, the next 5,000 at 12%, and so on). But you don't write for royalties, you write for your advance. Very few authors earn out their advance (sell more books than what the advance covers in royalties).

There are no advances in the go world, and you typically have to wait a year for your first batch of royalties. Standard royalties are often 5%, and on the much lower price received by the publisher (standard in the US, I'm told), not on the retail price (standard in the UK, or at least used to be).

It's true that if you write shorter books, PDF is a good format. You can sell them cheaper, and make your money quickly, and not worry too much about piracy.

True as far as it goes, but not really relevant to the go scene. Writers are not trying to make lots of money, but are trying to do things like fill gaps in the literature. Short pot-boilers normally don't fill the gaps very well.

Piracy is definitely a big disincentive for some (I know of some projects, not mine and not just electronic, that have not happened because of fear of it) but the go community in general can give itself a big pat on the back for behaving the right way on this.

[kirkmc]

Standard royalties in the US are around 10%. You can get a bit more once you sell more books (ie, the first 10,000 at 10%, the next 5,000 at 12%, and so on). But you don't write for royalties, you write for your advance. Very few authors earn out their advance (sell more books than what the advance covers in royalties).

There are no advances in the go world, and you typically have to wait a year for your first batch of royalties. Standard royalties are often 5%, and on the much lower price received by the publisher (standard in the US, I'm told), not on the retail price (standard in the UK, or at least used to be).

It's true that if you write shorter books, PDF is a good format. You can sell them cheaper, and make your money quickly, and not worry too much about piracy.

True as far as it goes, but not really relevant to the go scene. Writers are not trying to make lots of money, but are trying to do things like fill gaps in the literature. Short pot-boilers normally don't fill the gaps very well.

Piracy is definitely a big disincentive for some (I know of some projects, not mine and not just electronic, that have not happened because of fear of it) but the go community in general can give itself a big pat on the back for behaving the right way on this.

Yes, I naturally meant standard royalties for general books. Niche books with small presses are much different. You don't write them for the money for sure.

In the US, it is standard that royalties are on the publisher's net price, not the retail price. In the UK this is not the case, but percentages are generally lower, and advances are lower too (in part because of a smaller market, hence smaller print runs).

Short books don't have to be pot-boilers; they could be books on very specific moves, tesujis, or joskeis that don't merit 200 pages or so. Or even a handful of commented games.

[imabuddha]

Returning to the actual topic of this thread, I received my copy of OFvsNF today. Quick service from Slate & Shell, as usual.

I haven't had time to do more than flip through it, but the first quarter of the book which discusses "hypermodern" openings appears very good. The actual game which comprises the main part of the book looks as detailed as JF's other fine recent works. I must say though that it's always his introductory material that I find most interesting.

[kex]

You mentioned the cost of an iPad today; that will change over time. This is a first generation product, and what's interesting is that, compared to say the Palm Pilot in its time, there have been far more innovative apps and projects for the iPad in just over a year. I don't doubt that the competition when the Android tablet makers can figure out how to market their tablets will reduce the price and increase the features. (In case you think I'm making that up, read this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20062940-64.html)

Indeed. This is a major problem with the iPad fad. Someone asked about the price of book compared to the price of an electric book. Let's see:

A person buying 10 books a year, averaging 20€/book, costs 200€. Sells 5 books as used with 2€ each, second hand. Total cost per year: 190€.

A second person buying the same number of books per year: 500€/ year for a new tablet. 10 books, 10€ each, total 100€. Cannot sell any books second hand. Total cost 600€/year, plus the transition costs for moving the old books to the new reader.

Cheaper, eh? Do you really think the equipment producers and marketing will let you feel good about your old and clumsy equipment? You NEED to stay up-to-date, you know, or you will miss EVERYTHING!

[imabuddha]

<sigh>

Indeed. This is a major problem with the iPad fad.

Quoting from Wikipedia which cites another source for it: "Though the term trend may be used interchangeably with fad, a fad is generally considered a fleeting behavior whereas a trend is considered to be a behavior that evolves into a relatively permanent change."

iPad has only been on the market for a little over a year now, but thus far it shows no sign of waning popularity. What say we withhold judgement on whether it's a relatively permanent change in the computing landscape or just a fad for another couple of years?

A second person buying the same number of books per year: 500€/ year for a new tablet. 10 books, 10€ each, total 100€. Cannot sell any books second hand. Total cost 600€/year, plus the transition costs for moving the old books to the new reader.

Cheaper, eh? Do you really think the equipment producers and marketing will let you feel good about your old and clumsy equipment? You NEED to stay up-to-date, you know, or you will miss EVERYTHING!

One certainly does not need to buy a new tablet or phone every year to read ebooks. SmartGo Books (and the apps I use for other kinds of ebooks) work perfectly well on last year's ipad, and my nearly two year old iPhone 3Gs. One also doesn't need to spend 500€ on a device for reading ebooks. There are a number of far cheaper tablets & dedicated ebook readers in the range of $114 to $300, and their cost should rightfully be amortized over a period of at least 3 years.

That said, if the sole reason one wants such a device is for reading ebooks, then it would only be cheaper than buying paper books if one normally reads more than just 10 books per year. Of course if saving money is the goal then I advise borrowing books from the library and/or buying used books.

[jts]

I'll noted that I asked about the marginal cost of producing an additional manuscript, book, or e-book, not about the fixed costs.

[kirkmc]

As with anything digital, all the costs of production (not storage, fulfillment or delivery) are with the first copy. For paper books, that depends on many variables: type of paper, number of pages, print run, etc. As for manuscripts, it depends on length, and whether or not you pay scribes.

[bspooky]

Nothing like jumping into the middle of a maelstrom with my first post on this board, but I have found this thread quite interesting. A few things:

1) I assume John Fairbairn's assertions (that the ebook market is small) is limited in scope to go ebooks. Even if so, the fact that the overall market for ebooks *IS* replacing printed books should be sign that the future for smaller niche books, such as go books, may be in e-format. I do not think printed books will ever die, but given the recent news stories (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/148875/ ... -books.htm) that Amazon now sells more ebooks than all printed books combined, it would seem wise to start thinking that ebooks are not just an ugly step child of the real thing. I know Amazon may not be the largest book seller in the world, but they are one of (if not the one) largest in North America, and I think the trend is set.

2) Not sure where all the hatred towards the ipad, and condescension of ipad users, is coming from. 10 years from now will the iPad still be on top of the mobile computing devices? I have no idea. I do believe the iPad has allowed mainstream users a glimpse into the future of mobile computing. Does it deserve all the credit for that? Of course not, it is standing on the shoulders of others (I have been wanting a slate tablet PC that ran as well ever since the first tablet PC came out a decade ago, and these are all just evolutions of the computer). But it does represent the current device that is enabling the mass market to see new possibilities. And it is creating a new way of consuming (and generating) media. If you don't like it, don't use it. No need to look down on others that do.

As a newcomer to the Go world, I hope the old standbys in the go industry embrace mobile technology. The Kindle (which has been replaced with the iPad) got me reading again. I had ready maybe 2 books a year for the last few decades, now in the last three years I have read over a hundred books. Similarly, after being a strong tournament chess player, I am starting to embrace another strategy game because of my mobile device. Though I admit, chess was natural to me, Go is proving to be a very joyful frustration.

And to be somewhat on topic....at what point in time would I find OFvsNF a valuable read in my go education?

[crux]

And to be somewhat on topic....at what point in time would I find OFvsNF a valuable read in my go education?

In terms of education it may take a while, but if it's anything like the other books by the same author, it should prove enjoyable to read nevertheless. I've taken this thread as a reminder to update my Go books reviews on my Sensei's library page (http://senseis.xmp.net/?crux) where I've added sections for 9-dan Showdown, Kamakura, Final Summit and The Go Consultants.

[gowan]

Bravo John Fairbairn for this book and the Miijin's Retirement Game book. In some ways Shusai seems to have been a controversial character, witness Go Seigen's comment that he was "a scoundrel". But I came away from these books with an increased appreciation for Shusai. In particular I had not played through many other games involving him (the Insha game and a couple of games with Shuei) and I was impressed with how well he played. He was already an old man when the game with Go took place yet he played wonderfully in the long sequence of moves after the great tesuji at White 160, move after move finding the only move that would keep him in the game. This impressed me since apparently most of the old Meijins rarely played competitively after receiving the title so I would expect a decline in competitive strength. And the retirement game! Here was a frail old man with seriously debilitating heart disease and yet he mustered enough strength to play so well against one of the top young players of the time.

[Mivo]

I don't know. Bill Cobb initiates those decisions, and judging by the amount of work he has to do for (so far) very low returns, I'd be a bit surprised if he wanted to take that route for an existing paper book.

The problem with Slate & Shell's Smartgo Books is, at least for me, the fact that they are not complete. As far as I can tell, each of their ebook versions is a stripped down version of the respective paper book. For me at least there is no reason to buy these since I want the full content, so I have to buy the paper book. If the two editions were identical, I'd go with the Smartgo book.

Smartgo books also really need a client/player for Android and Windows. It's a wonderful design and they work fantastically, but I'm not sure if the typical Go enthusiast is all that likely to get a fairly expensive device from Apple (restrictive, closed concept, expensive). Some of us have one, but there is possibly more overlap with the Android world. (And sadly I lately use it far more for playing board games like Neuroshima Hex, New Colony, Samurai, Scrabble and Carcassonne than anything related to Go!)

[John Fairbairn]

The problem with Slate & Shell's Smartgo Books is, at least for me, the fact that they are not complete.

Two points.

1. The idea behind this, which you are entitled to disagree with, but the publisher is just as entitled to disagree with you, is that the e-books serve as a way of advertising the paper books, an investment already made before SmartGo Kifu came along and an investment worth protecting in this way, especially as the state of advertising outlets for go books is so abysmal.

2. There is a pure e-book I've done (Honinbo Shusai's problem collection Shikatsu Myoki - I regard it as a minor venture). It should be ready to hit the market soon, but parts of SmartGo Kifu need rewriting to cope with some it. It's good that Anders is willing to put even more work into it, but it does indicate the fragility of the e-book operation (and perhaps makes it less likely that we'll see an early Android etc version).

So far, though of course it may that already owning a paper version has put off some buyers, I have seen nothing in the sales figures that would persuade me to give up on paper books. Shikatsu Myoki (Wonderful Workings in Life and Death) is one opportunity for all you iPadders to prove me wrong