Magic Wand vs. Yithril

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yithril
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by yithril »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I did a lot of reading and this seems to be the move that gives me the least amount of aji. I also couldn't find a way to live in sente. We'll see how this game goes from here.
Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . 4 O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

@Magicwand:
Magicwand wrote:...
i think my thickness will speak for itself later...


Will it use hide tags? :lol:
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by yithril »

PRISONERS B:1 W:0
Click Here To Hide Diagram Code
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X 5 O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by Loons »

Anyone else find doing tsumego has made situations like this drive them absolutely mad?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |[/go]

I'm sure I've seen tsumego that at least looked more alive than this...! But it's still too open eh. I'll defer to Magicwand and Yithril's feelings on the matter.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc I at least could lose as either player.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . 3 . . X 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i still dont think i am behind... so i will play calm.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by robinz »

Can any observer explain to me why MW doesn't think he is behind? If I was white in this position against an opponent of similar strength to me, I'd be thinking it was time to resign - sure, white has thickness, but that has to be translated into territory at some point, usually by attacking the opponent's groups. I don't see any weak black groups on the board, nor very much white territory given that large areas are still dead easy for black to invade or reduce. How can MW win this game?
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Post by EdLee »

robinz,
Have you looked at these points of interest (for W)?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . f e . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X c . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . g d . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by robinz »

@Edlee:

Sure, there's some interesting aji around each of those points, which will help white get something back. But I don't see how white can actually win the game from here, or even making it close, without killing a major group of black's (or reviving the dead O11 group) - and I see little prospect of either. I expect I will be educated as the game goes on though :D
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by Loons »

@robinz
I think it's pretty worth regarding that the first fifty moves were made on the right side of the board, in black's orthodox formation.

Black also has also not yet entered/reduced the bottom left- at all, really. We're about to see it, which is going to be very interesting. I think we might find black's play a little less ambitious than you are expecting.

Especially a few moves in the future, I think it is going to be interesting to compare the diagonal quadrants of this board.
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by Laman »

robinz:
i once said that points are good only to sacrifice for influence and thickness, yet i have to wonder whether white can make enough to win. i think black has an advantage on the board but not as overwhelming as it might look.

EdLee pointed out several big moves for white - upper right corner appear visually as a black's stronghold but it is still opened for white, who could actually get there few points for himself. aji in the lower right corner is weaker but there is some (possibly ko?).

still i find it hilarious that two 4ds can play a slow game and both be convinced that they are winning :D
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by yithril »

Decisions decisions decisions...
Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by Mnemonic »

While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by yithril »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hope everyone had a good weekend!

Time to keep it simple and just take points. His move was interesting but I think he'll end up with less than what he bargained for. I see no reason not to directly take territory at this juncture.
Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Post by Tryphon »

Loons wrote:Anyone else find doing tsumego has made situations like this drive them absolutely mad?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |[/go]

I'm sure I've seen tsumego that at least looked more alive than this...! But it's still too open eh. I'll defer to Magicwand and Yithril's feelings on the matter.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc I at least could lose as either player.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . 3 . . X 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |[/go]


I have the same feelings. I suppose this could be more interesting for black, but I'm quite unsure :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . 4 3 X 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |[/go]


Of course, I'm sure thre's good refutations since neither of them tried anything yet.
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