Capture go problem

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Bill Spight
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Capture go problem

Post by Bill Spight »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Black to play
$$ -----------
$$ | X . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O . . O . |
$$ -----------[/go]


Easy, but, I think, instructive. :)

Edit:

Capture go.

Passing is not allowed. The first player to capture a stone wins.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kirby
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Kirby »

Pass? I don't really get it...
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Li Kao
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Li Kao »

@Kirby
I think you can't pass in capture go. So the point of this problem is to force your opponent to fill his eyes first. But I can't find a good ruleset for capture go atm.
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Last edited by Li Kao on Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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daniel_the_smith
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ -----------
$$ | X . 1 3 . |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O . 2 O . |
$$ -----------[/go]


...and white is forced to play self atari?

Maybe Bill is trying to demonstrate how capture go could evolve into regular go?

Or maybe I'm missing the point completely...
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Koroviev »

Could you explain rules, Bill? I find various different ones online.
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Kirby »

Li Kao wrote:@Kirby
I think you can't pass in capture go. So the point of this problem is to force your opponent to fill his eyes first. But I can't find a good ruleset for capture go atm.


Ah, thanks, Li Kao. I wasn't thinking of "capture go", the game. For some reason, I was assuming that this was "regular go".
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Bill Spight
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Bill Spight »

daniel_the_smith wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ -----------
$$ | X . 1 3 . |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O . 2 O . |
$$ -----------[/go]


...and white is forced to play self atari?

Maybe Bill is trying to demonstrate how capture go could evolve into regular go?

Or maybe I'm missing the point completely...


Right answer. But you are missing the point. Consider wrong answers. :)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

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Bill Spight
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Bill Spight »

Koroviev wrote:Could you explain rules, Bill? I find various different ones online.


Sorry. I have edited the problem to show where the rules differ from regular go.
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by daal »

black needs to make two eyes to win?
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Li Kao
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Li Kao »

If you just need to capture a single stone the problem looks pretty pointless.
There are three first moves.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ The three moves
$$ -----------
$$ | X b c c b |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O a a O . |
$$ -----------[/go]


a) is selfatari
b) leads to a 3 point eye which once white jumps into its middle forces a self atari
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari
$$ -----------
$$ | X 1 . 2 . |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O . . O . |
$$ -----------[/go]

c) daniel's sequence which works. White can't deviate at move 2 since all other moves are self atari.

I really don't see your point.
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Bill Spight
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Bill Spight »

Li Kao wrote:
If you just need to capture a single stone the problem looks pretty pointless.
There are three first moves.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ The three moves
$$ -----------
$$ | X b c c b |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O a a O . |
$$ -----------[/go]


a) is selfatari
b) leads to a 3 point eye which once white jumps into its middle forces a self atari
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari
$$ -----------
$$ | X 1 . 2 . |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O . . O . |
$$ -----------[/go]

c) daniel's sequence which works. White can't deviate at move 2 since all other moves are self atari.

I really don't see your point.


The point is the seki in variation b). Even though you don't need two eyes to live in capture go, you may need two eyes to avoid seki. :)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Li Kao
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Li Kao »

Bill Spight wrote:
Li Kao wrote:b) leads to a 3 point eye which once white jumps into its middle forces a self atari
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari
$$ -----------
$$ | X 1 . 2 . |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O . . O . |
$$ -----------[/go]


The point is the seki in variation b). Even though you don't need two eyes to live in capture go, you may need two eyes to avoid seki. :)

How is that a seki? It's black to move. He may not pass. So he will need to play a self-atari and lose one white's next turn.
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by palapiku »

The term "seki" only makes sense when passing is allowed. So does the word "alive", for that matter.
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Shaddy »

I think seki makes sense without passes. It means that the first player to play locally gets a poor result, somehow. In this case there's nowhere else to play, so black just loses.
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Bill Spight
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Re: Capture go problem

Post by Bill Spight »

Li Kao wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Li Kao wrote:b) leads to a 3 point eye which once white jumps into its middle forces a self atari
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari
$$ -----------
$$ | X 1 . 2 . |
$$ | X X X X X |
$$ | X O X O X |
$$ | O O O O O |
$$ | O . . O . |
$$ -----------[/go]


The point is the seki in variation b). Even though you don't need two eyes to live in capture go, you may need two eyes to avoid seki. :)

How is that a seki? It's black to move. He may not pass. So he will need to play a self-atari and lose one white's next turn.


The top region is seki. Neither side may approach the other. :)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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