110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:23 pm

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:42 pm

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:45 pm

Kirby wrote:
I wonder if you should resign when you know your opponent can win. It is hard for me to say, because go is a game where people make mistakes often. I think I made a big mistake in this game by letting the right side die, for example. I thought I was ahead before then.

Should I resign when I suspect that my opponent can win? I don't know the answer.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:49 pm

Are either of the comments above OK for me to read? Since the latter quotes me, I have a suspicion...

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:52 pm

Kirby wrote:Are either of the comments above OK for me to read? Since the latter quotes me, I have a suspicion...

You can probably read Graham's, but not mine.

Marcus:

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:55 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . O O O . X . . . X X O . O O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . O . X . . . X . X O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . X O X X X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . O X . . O O O O O X O O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 X X X X O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . O O O X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O 1 O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@Chew:

@obs:

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:58 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . O O O . X . . . X X O . O O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . O . X . . . X . X O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . X O X X X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . O X . 4 O O O O O X O O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 X X X X O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . O O O X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O 1 O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:01 pm

Here's the sequence I see (ko) ... do you have a better defense for W?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . O O O . X . . . X X O . O O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . O . X . . . X . X O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . X O X X X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . O X 6 4 O O O O O X O O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . 5 3 X X X X O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . 7 O O O X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X O 8 . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O 9 X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O 1 O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:03 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . O O O . X . . . X X O . O O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . O . X . . . X . X O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . X O X X X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . O X 6 4 O O O O O X O O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . 5 3 X X X X O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X 0 7 O O O X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O C O 8 . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O 9 X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O 1 O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Edit:

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:09 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . O O O . X . . . X X O . O O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . O . X . . . X . X O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . X O X X X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . O X O O O O O O O X O O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . 1 X X X X X X O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X O X O O O X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O . O O . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O X X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:21 pm

Yes. I resign. There is no way for me to come back.

I don't think I had time to ever answer that, either. I was really hoping that I could get sente to play here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . O O O . X . . . X X O . O O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . O . X . . . X . X O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . W X O X X X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . O X . . O O O O O X O O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X X X X O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . O O O X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think that white would be ahead with this board (of course, you get to play first, so this would only happen if you took gote on something worth like 10 points or less).

Even at this point in the game, I yearned to respond, but there simply wasn't time for me to do so (I don't think):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . . . X . . . 1 C X O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . X O 3 X X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . 2 O O . . X O O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X X . . O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . O O . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

---

Up until this point in the game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O . X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , 4 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I thought that I was winning. Actually, I was kind of proud of the white move, above.

But you played well and exploited this. It's hard to believe that the right side could die. I don't know what I was thinking to make that happen.

Perhaps this was the losing move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O . X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X 4 . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was too greedy, and this allowed you to attack me. It's a big play, sure... But why do I have to be so greedy?

After you exploited my tenuki, you killed the right, and I had nothing to do but to sprint to catch up.

I left weaknesses trying to catch up after losing those stones, but I could not find a way to do anything about it.

I was hoping for a big enough weakness, but I couldn't grab onto it. I couldn't think deeply enough. That, or you didn't leave a big enough weakness for me to catch. :-)

So, I suppose you can continue to comment on how you can beat me... ;-)

Maybe someday I will win a game against, you.

In any case, thank you for the game. I apologize if I drug it on too long toward the end. I knew that I had weaknesses. But I knew that I had to leave them open if I had any chance of coming back. Now that chance has been eliminated, so I have nothing left to do but resign.

Thank you for the game. You exploited my greediness well. :-)

jts · Post by **jts** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:57 pm

Exciting game! Thanks to both of you.

Aphelion · Post by **Aphelion** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:00 pm

What hikaru blog?

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:01 am

I'm now going through the game ... it's interesting how I felt throughout the game ...

For instance, at move :b7:

:

So, what's my overall plan? I think the game will be more fun for me if I turn it into a whole bunch of fights. Is that overly combative of me?

Seems like Joaz disagrees with my decision to leave the upper right corner in tension ... he posts after move :b9:

:

The top right is urgent. The middle lower side is merely big. You really must play in the top right, unless you can play a move that creates a situation of equal urgency someplace else.

It's interesting. I'm not sure why that corner is "urgent" ... at worst, I can let White continue a joseki sequence ... at best I get back there first for extra points. I'll have to discuss that somewhere else on the forums later.

At move :b23:

, I believe I made the first of my tactical misevaluations. I say the following:

It seems to me that, even if White takes c (or somewhere around there), the right side is not very big.

'c' being R6 ... which you promptly take with :w24:

... in hindsight I should have probably played R7, as emerus pointed out in his comment.

Now, I think :b27:

was a big mistake. I split myself into two weak groups. I felt like the game got away from me about this time, and I felt really aggravated once we hit this position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 1 . , . . X . X O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Laman and EdLee discuss an interesting set of sequences for :w32:

starting at post 61 that's worth reviewing, I think.

You grabbed a lot of cash with :w46:

and

... I can't blame you ... it felt like you were ahead and pulling away.

I never did see the ko that cloud mentions as early as post 97 ... though it looks like you knew about it.

It's interesting that MW would have played the same top attachment for :b51:

(see post 115) ... I take heart in that. Maybe I'm not as hopeless as I keep thinking.

I felt like :w62:

was your first little slip after taking the lead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X X X O , . . X . X O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O O . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At

it seemed to me that the game was almost over ...

It seems like both Shaddy and ythril believe I should have just cut your :w84:

large knight's move ... gonna have to think about that part of the game ... I think at the time I was still eyeing how much damage I could do to your right side, and didn't want to tip my hand.

But, yeah, the tenuki at :w94:

gave me the chance to really throw the game into chaos ... which is exactly what I needed ... I think, though, that you could have been fine if you had blocked with 110 instead of extending ... that was the real gift:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . 0 O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X . . . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After this ... it became a desperate fight for BOTH players ...

Thanks for this game, Kirby! It was a lot of fun (though nerve-wracking for me at times). I'll have to get this into an SGF and study it a bit more thoroughly ... you definitely outplayed me in the opening, by far!

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:22 am

Marcus wrote:...

Thanks for this game, Kirby! It was a lot of fun (though nerve-wracking for me at times). I'll have to get this into an SGF and study it a bit more thoroughly ... you definitely outplayed me in the opening, by far!

Thanks for the game, as well. Losing this game was a pretty bitter experience for me, but I did enjoy it.

Life In 19x19

110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!