33. Magicwand (3d) vs. zinger (1d)

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Thu May 13, 2010 7:08 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c prisoners: white 5, black 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . O X X X . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . X . X O 1 . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O . O X . X X O O . O . O O O X . . | $$ | . . O , X . . O . O O X . X X X . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . O X . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . X . X . . X O X X X . | $$ | . O X O . . . X . . O O . X O O X O . | $$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . O O O O X . | $$ | . O O O . X O O X . . O . . . X O X . | $$ | . . X O X . . . X , X . . O . , O X . | $$ | . X X O X O O X . . . X X X O O O O X | $$ | . X O X X X X O X X . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . X O . . . . O O . . . O X X O O X X | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O X | $$ | . X . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . O O | $$ | X O X X O . O X O , X O X . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X O . O . O X . X O . X O . . | $$ | O . O O . . O O O X . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu May 13, 2010 7:34 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c prisoners: white 5, black 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . O X X X . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . X . X O X . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O . O X . X X O O . O . O O O X . . | $$ | . . O , X . . O . O O X . X X X . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . O X . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . . . W . X . X . . X O X X X . | $$ | . O X O . . . X . . O O . X O O X O . | $$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . O O O O X . | $$ | . O O O . X O O X . . O . . . X O X . | $$ | . . X O X . . . X , X . . O . , O X . | $$ | . X X O X O O X . . . X X X O O O O X | $$ | . X O X X X X O X X . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . X O . . . . O O . . . O X X O O X X | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O X | $$ | . X . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . O O | $$ | X O X X O . O X O , X O X . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X O . O . O X . X O . X O . . | $$ | O . O O . . O O O X . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Thu May 13, 2010 7:50 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c prisoners: white 5, black 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . O X X X . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . X . X O X . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O . O X . X X O O . O . O O O X . . | $$ | . . O , X . . O . O O X . X X X . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . O X . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . . . O 1 X . X . . X O X X X . | $$ | . O X O . . . X . . O O . X O O X O . | $$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . O O O O X . | $$ | . O O O . X O O X . . O . . . X O X . | $$ | . . X O X . . . X , X . . O . , O X . | $$ | . X X O X O O X . . . X X X O O O O X | $$ | . X O X X X X O X X . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . X O . . . . O O . . . O X X O O X X | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O X | $$ | . X . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . O O | $$ | X O X X O . O X O , X O X . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X O . O . O X . X O . X O . . | $$ | O . O O . . O O O X . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu May 13, 2010 7:52 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c prisoners: white 5, black 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . O X X X . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . X . X O X . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O . O X . X X O O . O . O O O X . . | $$ | . . O , X . . O . O O X . X X X . . . | $$ | . O X X . . W . O X . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . . . O X X . X . . X O X X X . | $$ | . O X O . . . X . . O O . X O O X O . | $$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . O O O O X . | $$ | . O O O . X O O X . . O . . . X O X . | $$ | . . X O X . . . X , X . . O . , O X . | $$ | . X X O X O O X . . . X X X O O O O X | $$ | . X O X X X X O X X . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . X O . . . . O O . . . O X X O O X X | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O X | $$ | . X . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . O O | $$ | X O X X O . O X O , X O X . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X O . O . O X . X O . X O . . | $$ | O . O O . . O O O X . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Thu May 13, 2010 8:03 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c prisoners: white 5, black 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . O X X X . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . X . X O X . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O . O X . X X O O . O . O O O X . . | $$ | . . O , X . . O . O O X . X X X . . . | $$ | . O X X . . O . O X . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . 1 . O X X . X . . X O X X X . | $$ | . O X O . . . X . . O O . X O O X O . | $$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . O O O O X . | $$ | . O O O . X O O X . . O . . . X O X . | $$ | . . X O X . . . X , X . . O . , O X . | $$ | . X X O X O O X . . . X X X O O O O X | $$ | . X O X X X X O X X . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . X O . . . . O O . . . O X X O O X X | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O X | $$ | . X . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . O O | $$ | X O X X O . O X O , X O X . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X O . O . O X . X O . X O . . | $$ | O . O O . . O O O X . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu May 13, 2010 8:09 pm

i resign!
thank you for the game.
sorry about bad game.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Thu May 13, 2010 8:11 pm

Thanks Magicwand, it wasn't so bad, at least not by my standards. I always make mistakes like that ;-)

Anyway I will go back and read the comments now ... maybe some of them I will reply to.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu May 13, 2010 9:15 pm

This was an exciting game! I am still curious who would have won if it hadn't been for the last bit.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu May 13, 2010 9:41 pm

Kirby wrote:This was an exciting game! I am still curious who would have won if it hadn't been for the last bit.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc prisoners: white 5, black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | x x . . . y y X B W x x x 1 X y y y y | $$ | x x O . X y X y X O x x O x O X X y y | $$ | x O x O X y X X O O x O W O O O X y y | $$ | x x O , X . . O . , O X B X X X y y y | $$ | x O X X . . . . . . . X y y B y X y y | $$ | x O X . . . . . . . X . . X O X X X y | $$ | x O X O . . . X . . O O . X O O X O y | $$ | x W B O . X y X O O . x x O O O O X y | $$ | W O O O . X O O X W . O . x x X O X y | $$ | B B X O X y y y X B X . . O 3 W O X y | $$ | B X X O X O O X y y . X X X O 2 O O X | $$ | y X O X X X X O X X . . W B X X X X y | $$ | y X O X W . . O O . . . O X X O O X X | $$ | y y y X W O . x . . . O . O O X O O X | $$ | . X y B B O X x . . X X O O O x x O O | $$ | X O X X O W O X O , X O X B W O x x x | $$ | . O X O X O x O . O X y X O B X O x x | $$ | O x O O x x O O O X y B y X X X O x x | $$ | x O x x x x x x O X y y y y B O W x x | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i would lose about 2~3 points. result would been same.

KGS 4 kyu · Post by **fwiffo** » Thu May 13, 2010 9:50 pm

You guys seem well matched - that was an exciting game!

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Fri May 14, 2010 5:11 am

I actually thought I was behind ~3 points. Magicwand had already played 2 in his diagram; there is no guarantee I would capture O3; white has a point or two of equity at K6. Maybe I was wrong.

My other option at the top was:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c prisoners: white 5, black 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . 6 5 X X . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . X . X O 4 . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O . O X . X X O O . O . O O O X . . | $$ | . . O , X . . O 7 2 O X . X X X . . . | $$ | . O X X . 9 . . 3 1 . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . 8 . . . . . X . . X O X X X . | $$ | . O X O . . . X . . O O . X O O X O . | $$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . O O O O X . | $$ | . O O O . X O O X . . O . . . X O X . | $$ | . . X O X . . . X , X . . O . , O X . |[/go]

This looked big enough to win by ~3 points. But I could easily lose 3 points in the small yose, so I was not confident in this.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Fri May 14, 2010 5:26 am

About the bottom side group. Some people apparently thought it was alive the whole time, citing black K2 after white L2. My main line analysis:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X 9 . O . . . | $$ | . . X . X O . O . . 5 7 X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O 8 3 2 4 6 X X 0 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

6 is the key move, threatening 7, and also preventing the eye at O3, which is what I missed when I played this. That means black will have to seek a second eye in the K4 area, which which isn't so easy, especially if white gets another stone out there.

So in that case, that black stone at Q3 is a mistake - if it was not played, black Q2 instead is much better yose. So not only did I not live, I gave away points too.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Fri May 14, 2010 9:14 am

Magicwand wrote:i would lose about 2~3 points. result would been same.

ok i looked at my counting again.. i would have won 1 point.
but..it makes me feel worse!

over all analysis of my game....
beginning i gained some points after the ko.
in the middle i played badly and lost all my points and needed something major to win.

i tried to make something happend by attacking strange move he played on lower right corner and fairly successful but not enough. so more overplay on me.

way he attacked my group on left was weak so i managed to make life and made a game outof it.

i think i was up few points but i wanted to play safe moves (i think my decision was correct) and made the game very close (i think i was losing when i counted).

i felt that he made few mistakes during the endgame and i had a chance to win but it didnt happen.

sorry for the observers for playing sub-par game. next time i will take more time and raise the standard of my moves.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Fri May 14, 2010 9:17 am

Thanks to both of you for playing this game

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Fri May 14, 2010 10:16 am

Magicwand wrote:way he attacked my group on left was weak so i managed to make life and made a game outof it.

I agree:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . | $$ | . . a , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . O . X O O X O . | $$ | . . . O . 1 . X O O . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . O O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . | $$ | . . X . . O O X . . . X X X O . . O . | $$ | . . . . X X X O X X . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . O X X O O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I totally failed to appreciate the strong relationship between 2 and the corner. When white got to play a, he was definitely leading. Alternatively:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . B . . . O . X O O X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . B O O . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . O O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X , X . . O . , O . . | $$ | . . X . . O O X . . . X X X O . . O . | $$ | . . . . X X X O X X . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . O X X O O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At the time I though that if I played 1, 2 would work against my marked cutting stones. I thought it was important to keep them strong, but I didn't like the result in the game.

Life In 19x19

33. Magicwand (3d) vs. zinger (1d)

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Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger