EGC 2011 - European Go Congress

Laman · Post by **Laman** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:17 am

p2501 wrote:I don't think non europeans can go into the knockout group even with sufficient points. Or can they?

no, they can't (for obvious reasons, to decide a European champion). and i don't think that anything in HermanHiddema's post implies that non-Europeans could qualify

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:21 am

Laman wrote:
p2501 wrote:I don't think non europeans can go into the knockout group even with sufficient points. Or can they?
no, they can't (for obvious reasons, to decide a European champion). and i don't think that anything in HermanHiddema's post implies that non-Europeans could qualify

How are prizes being assigned this year?

HermanHiddema · Post by **HermanHiddema** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:26 am

BTW, in my opinion this knock-out seems to be working out quite well. Some thoughts:

No European player seems to be particularly disadvantaged. There will be one or two players who would have had a one point head start under the old system (Catalin or Ondrej, and potentially Ilja), but even under the old system they would have needed to win the remaining three games to be sure of the title (With 2/3 they would have entered the SOS lottery that was so common in recent years). Those with 5/7 would definitely have needed to win the remaining three games. Given that, the KO looks very fair. With the KO, you also need to win the remaining three games, but there will never be a SOS lottery.

As to the non-European players, it seems quite fair to them too. They have had 7 rounds to play against the best that Europe has to offer, and even in the remaining three rounds there will be sufficient interesting opponents. For round 7, Kim would normally have been paired with a player on 39 points (as he's already played Catalin, Ilja and Ondrej). Given the fact that there will be at least on relegation game between players with 39 points, there is a good chance that the loser of that game will face Kim, so Kim's pairing is unaffected. As to Jeon's pairing, it still depends on his current round result, but he too will probably be paired against a sufficiently strong player (players like Svetlana Shikshina or Mero Csaba are close behind, as are those from the top 18 who lose this round).

All in all, it seems to be working out fine, at least for this year. I'm very interested to hear the opinions of the top players about this.

HermanHiddema · Post by **HermanHiddema** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:22 am

Anyone know the result of the game between Kachanovskyi and Balogh? It is the only result missing from the top, and one of these two players will join the other eight already on 39 points and be in the running to win the title.

Other than that, the following eight players are still in the runnning:

Taranu, Silt, Shikshin, Mitic, Debarre, Dinerchtein, Burzo and Surin.

Surin has very low SOS, and will have to play a play-off on Wednesday. Either against Burzo, if Kachanovskyi won the game I asked about, or against Balogh, if Balogh won it.

jts · Post by **jts** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:36 am

Laman wrote:
p2501 wrote:I don't think non europeans can go into the knockout group even with sufficient points. Or can they?
no, they can't (for obvious reasons, to decide a European champion).

Will they be using blood tests or craniometry to determine which players are European?

lorill · Post by **lorill** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:12 am

HermanHiddema wrote:Anyone know the result of the game between Kachanovskyi and Balogh? It is the only result missing from the top, and one of these two players will join the other eight already on 39 points and be in the running to win the title.

Artem won :

Laman · Post by **Laman** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:21 am

jts wrote:Will they be using blood tests or craniometry to determine which players are European?

no, passport will do the job. and i don't think it is any more unreasonable (as one could feel from your tone) than not allowing Brazil to participate in European football championship

Ortho · Post by **Ortho** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:26 am

Isn't it more like allowing Brazil to participate but then saying that they aren't allowed to win?

amnal · Post by **amnal** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:43 am

jts wrote:
Laman wrote:
p2501 wrote:I don't think non europeans can go into the knockout group even with sufficient points. Or can they?
no, they can't (for obvious reasons, to decide a European champion).
Will they be using blood tests or craniometry to determine which players are European?

I'd guess they'll use something more conventional such as 'have they lived in Europe for X years?', or 'do they have citizenship of a European country'. I don't see why this would be a problem.

HermanHiddema · Post by **HermanHiddema** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:48 am

lorill wrote:
HermanHiddema wrote:Anyone know the result of the game between Kachanovskyi and Balogh? It is the only result missing from the top, and one of these two players will join the other eight already on 39 points and be in the running to win the title.
Artem won

Thanks!

So, if I read the rules correctly, that means that we will see a relegation game between Surin and Burzo on Wednesday.

I ran my program to determine optimal pairings (according to the new EGC rules) for the quarter finals, and the result is:

Kachanovskyi - Silt
Taranu - Burzo/Surin
Mitic - Dinerchtein
Shikshin - Debarre

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:10 pm

amnal wrote:I'd guess they'll use something more conventional such as 'have they lived in Europe for X years?', or 'do they have citizenship of a European country'. I don't see why this would be a problem.

Laman wrote: no, passport will do the job

It matters quite a bit which of the criteria is used, and that page doesn't specify.

HermanHiddema · Post by **HermanHiddema** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:16 pm

hyperpape wrote:
amnal wrote:I'd guess they'll use something more conventional such as 'have they lived in Europe for X years?', or 'do they have citizenship of a European country'. I don't see why this would be a problem.
Laman wrote: no, passport will do the job
It matters quite a bit which of the criteria is used, and that page doesn't specify.

They have always used the same definition, having a European passport (including any EGF member countries)

Not that it matters much this year.

breakfast · Post by **breakfast** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:33 pm

My impressions:

It's better to give the players the right to choose the partner, starting from #1 (Catalin Taranu).
So, he will be able to choose the weakest opponent from top 8 (will be fair).

Silt vs Artem pair seems to be unfair. Ondrej Silt was 2nd in preliminary (very successful perfomance), but got a very hard opponent.

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:00 pm

Does this more or less mean citizenship? I've never really known the rules here in the US (which aren't really applicable, but they're my reference point), but it seems that in almost every case, you have a passport only if you are a US citizen (resident aliens, or permanent immigrants, may be given a card guaranteeing reentry to the US--perhaps this is colloquially called a passport, though I don't know).

How difficult is it for permanent residents to become a citizen?

Kaliwan · Post by **Kaliwan** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:47 pm

this is nothing about fairness

the champion should be able to beat any of the oponent and not wait to get the weaker

Life In 19x19

EGC 2011 - European Go Congress

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