Time for a little grumpiness!

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John Fairbairn
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Re: Time for a little grumpiness!

Post by John Fairbairn »

No, it's not just cultural. At times, single words can be a problem. I came across one yesterday. Apparently, in the tech industry in the UK, they speak about "shifting" products. In US English, we would say "shipping" or "moving," for the number of units of a product that is sent to stores but not yet sold.

I have been watching the TV series Ashes to Ashes recently. The very last line was: “A word in your shell-like, pal." I had absolutely no idea what this meant, and even when watching, had to go back and turn the subtitles on to even understand what words they were.


Two examples don't make a trend, but I don't think these count anyway. Cockney rhyming slang has a local cultural basis, and gives many Brits problems as well, though "shell-like" is one of those that seems well known.

And in the case of shift, the meaning you attribute is either wrong or unusual or it's a usage unfamiliar to at least this Brit. Shifting products in normal usage just means selling, though is restricted to people like shopkeepers, so is again part of a local culture (commerce). E.g. "Christmas shopping really began today - I shifted 20 new plasma TVs at a grand apiece." If it's a wholesaler passing goods on to a retailer, the idea is still selling, to my shell-like.

I was teaching one of my grandsons his first rhyming slang words the other day. It was interesting how he found some very easy (apples and pears for stairs), some were easy but ambiguous (mince pies, pork pies) and some left him bemused even when explained (butcher's hook, trouble and strife). I didn't try him on things like boatrace, and certainly not berk, but this language is still alive and evolving. The famous show Minder had lots of new examples.

Other countries have equivalents, and they are nearly always meant to be a secret language. Japanese gangsters like to reverse syllables (do-sa for sa-do, i.e. exile), and a few examples have crept into go and shogi.

Going off a slight tangent (but still grumpiness), I tried a new US show yesterday called Bones. It was very slick and funny, but it had one feature that I find very annoying. In the same way that a go board (or chess board) often crops up in tv shows as a cipher for "this person is very intelligent", there seems to be a similar item in the American manual of standard acting techiques which clearly recommends speaking very fast to show you are intelligent. Since I find it hard enough to hear anyway, this is intensely irritating to me for that reason alone, but also it doesn't correspond with my experience of real life - even brainy people hum and haw, and if they do speak at high speed they are apt to be regarded as too clever here (i.e. potential nutters). In contrast, the upper class British gent educated at Oxbridge may speak with an exaggerated drawl to signify his origins and education (and that's pretty irritating, too).

Criminal Minds was a program that featured both a go board as a big-brain cipher and actors speaking supernaturally smoothly and fast - and I hated it, even though I'm usually a sucker for cop shows (The Wire is why I went to Baltimore).
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Re: Time for a little grumpiness!

Post by Mivo »

kirkmc wrote:I think Mark's "postage" is sort of clear, but "packing" is certainly not a word US English speakers are familiar with.


It should be painfully obvious to the average US English speaker what is meant by "postage" and "packing".

But perhaps Mark and John could take the stereotypical quality of the US American education system into account -- and draw a picture.
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Re: Time for a little grumpiness!

Post by Laman »

daniel_the_smith wrote:I think what is happening is that most people assume you only mean within your own country, as it's actually extremely rare (as in, you're the only people I've ever heard of that do it) for international shipping to be included in the price of something (speaking as someone living in the US, of course).

Of course, if the customers you're speaking of are all from the UK, then your theory is more likely... ;)

i totally agree. i am one of people who e-mailed TMark before purchasing my copy of GoGoD and i think i understood all used phrases perfectly (my English is a mixture of school British English and movie and internet American English), but i really missed the word "worldwide", which now makes the text absolutely clear

unfortunately i encountered shops pretty much hiding their shipping price more often than i saw shops saying it's free and meaning really free internationally

PS: good job, John and TMark, thank you for the GoGoD
Spilling gasoline feels good.

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Javaness2
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Re: Time for a little grumpiness!

Post by Javaness2 »

Helel wrote:
John Fairbairn wrote: sound odd, like the non-natives here who try to use slangy phrases like "What the heck".


Hmm, does he mean Javaness
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76660#p76660

or Robert...
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76311#p76311

Probably Robert, it usually is. :twisted:


You pedo bears :mad:
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Re: Time for a little grumpiness!

Post by emeraldemon »

I find British writing to be perfectly intelligible, but I do have some trouble understanding spoken British in movies or TV shows (or Irish or Scottish for that matter). I've heard that the UK has a much wider range of pronunciations and dialects than the US, in spite of having fewer people over a much smaller geographic area. Maybe something about the immigrant effect caused American pronunciation to grow relatively uniformly?

I grew up in Texas, and sometimes people are surprised that I don't sound like the Texan stereotype. I think between film & TV and the amount of travel people do these days, most city Americans sound pretty much the same. For people in the smaller towns, the sound is more noticeable, although still not as pronounced as it's usually portrayed on television.
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Re: Time for a little grumpiness!

Post by jts »

emeraldemon wrote:I've heard that the UK has a much wider range of pronunciations and dialects than the US, in spite of having fewer people over a much smaller geographic area. Maybe something about the immigrant effect caused American pronunciation to grow relatively uniformly? ... I think between film & TV and the amount of travel people do these days, most city Americans sound pretty much the same.


In Britain, as in most moderately densely settled regions of the Earth, there was a time when if you walked 10 miles from your home they'd be speaking a different dialect, and if you walked 50 miles they'd be talking nonsense. Only one of those regions had its dialect christened "English", and only a handful of them sent emigrants to America in large enough numbers to allow the dialect to survive here.

I need to disagree about city Americans sounding the same. A rural accent will only pin you to within a state or two, but certain urban accents can help you guess a city, or even a neighborhood. What you're saying is only true for a fairly small class of urbanites and suburbanites.
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Re: Time for a little grumpiness!

Post by TMark »

Mivo wrote:
kirkmc wrote:I think Mark's "postage" is sort of clear, but "packing" is certainly not a word US English speakers are familiar with.


It should be painfully obvious to the average US English speaker what is meant by "postage" and "packing".

But perhaps Mark and John could take the stereotypical quality of the US American education system into account -- and draw a picture.


I have just ordered some DVDs from Amazon and what do I see on the checkout screen? The cost of the items and "Postage and packing"! Perhaps this is something that they only do in the UK and a US user can confirm they also do it in the States.

Best wishes.
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Re: Time for a little grumpiness!

Post by kirkmc »

Amazon US says Shipping & Handling, the standard US phrase.
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