132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

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yithril
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by yithril »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Just as an aside, I wonder if this has any chance...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O 4 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O 3 2 5 8 . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X 6 O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Darn :)

Anyways Black should come out okay on the side once he plays D12. White 87 really looked like overplay.
Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Laman
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Laman »

yithril's sequence doesn't save the three black stones, but at least it can capture some of white stones by the edge, therefore making all black groups comfortable. perhaps not the time right now (certainly not before b D12 and splitting white), but a nice possibility afterwards

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 152-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 9 7 . 4 3 O 1 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 O O X O O O X 8 . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X 5 O X X X X O X X X O . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
tj86430
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

I'm extremely sorry for the long silence, I was traveling and I thought I'd have a decent internet access, but that was not the case. I'm back now, and I will try to make my next move later today.
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X 6 O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This line has some risks, but OTOH it makes things interesting. I haven't had time to read nearly all the variations, but my goal is to either live with the group (creating one eye around E13 and another one in the corner), or break out (and simultaneously kill white G13). The downside is, that my K14 group will lose one liberty, and white can harass it and destroy quite a bit of my potential territory around O12, but if I live with all my groups, I will win comfortably.

The other option would be to play e.g. N13, abandoning the whole corner and trying to secure a huge center, but I think I will learn more from this option. (I can still choose this option after white responds with the mandatory G15)
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O 7 X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've got to do something to turn this game around. I don't want to sacrifice these stones, though, because they seem important for getting forcing moves in later.
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 8 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let's go with the original plan. I expect him to seal me in with F11, after which I intend to live by making two eyes. He can attack my other weak group and reduce my center territory, but I should be ok.
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 9 X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am so losing this game. I promised chew, though, that I would keep playing for awhile.
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Hmmm...
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's see if this can work out for me...
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It looks like I can no longer live in the corner, so I have to abandon that group and take my profit in the center. This should be sente. If he plays hane, my counterhane should also be sente, after which I will play N13. If he doesn't hane, I'll play N13 right away.
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by emeraldemon »

Where did it all go wrong? This is a big group to lose this way!
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ez4u
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by ez4u »

emeraldemon wrote:
Where did it all go wrong? This is a big group to lose this way!

See Laman's post, building on yithril's. It is not dead yet.

Even without that, however, the ko below is a basic tesuji. White can not just connect around because Black would then capture everything with the attachment at "a".
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 4 2 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 3 O O X O O a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X 5 O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Dave Sigaty
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


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tj86430
Gosei
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Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That was a clever move from Kirby. I need to protect the cut, so I didn't get sente after all. He may play N13 next, in which case I will have to run into safety losing some points in the right center. Anyhow, this is much more important, and as long as my H17 dragon stays alive I should still be ok. He may also play in the bottom; if he does that I need to see which move he chooses and act accordingly.

I still have a comfortable lead, but as anticipated the stronger player slowly but surely eats it away. This game may become close, if I keep making mistakes.
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