Friendly Advice Thread!

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:36 pm

Any choice pieces of advice you think don't get bandied about *quite* enough? Be it run-of-the-mill or brilliant.
Also; kibitz, caveat, critique others' advice.

I'll start with:

1) Take care of the super-moyo your opponent is inevitably building before it becomes a big problem/fight.

2) Only play 4-4 stone enclosures when that approach has become your opponent's best next move.

If making an early enclosure here was going to be a big part of your strategy, you could have started with a different stone

.
Some illustration:

Your opponent has supporting thickness he wants to approach from.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Cho U - Yoda Norimoto $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . O . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It's simply the biggest thing on the board (you know how people are always talking about "most open side of the board").

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c O Rissei - Takao Shinji $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

PS: GoGoD is great!

BaghwanB · Post by **BaghwanB** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:35 pm

As pointed out recently: You don't need to kill everything. Getting ahead (esp if in sente is enough). Attacking too hard will leave you weak.

Bruce "Yeah, right..." Young

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:29 am

I read one of Fairbarn's articles where he explained the "amashi" strategy (which you may have only vaguely heard of) is actually to coax your opponent into over-attacking a weak group, ending up with inefficient, "musclebound" shapes and an inferior result (assuming you succeed

).

Mef · Post by **Mef** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:18 am

We all learn pretty early on that it (eventually) takes at least 6 stones to make a living group in the corner, 8 on the side, and 10 in the middle...but when you think about it, that means that every time you allow yourself to get cut you're potentially committing yourself to 6-10 more moves just to make life for your new group, that's 6-10 more moves that you aren't building, making points, etc. If you're going to let yourself get cut, make sure it's going to be worth it. Likewise, if you have the opportunity to cut your opponent / connect two of your own groups, the reverse situation applies.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:58 pm

I heard some variation on "It's so hard to kill stones" almost every day in China. It's surprising the places you can live in.

Tsuyoku · Post by **Tsuyoku** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:17 am

However badly you do it, count the score at every big decision.

Before you resign, count the score.
Before you decide whether to invade or reduce, count the score.
Before you play a purely defensive gote move, count the score.

It matters whether you're behind or not for these decisions. The more you count during your game, the better you get at it, both in speed and accuracy.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:59 am

Here's one I had pointed out at Congress: "If a move doesn't make points, it might or might not end up doing anything". This seems obvious, and it seems like there are a million exceptions to it. But basically, I had to start asking myself whether moves were likely to become dame for no reason. After that, I started finding more excuses to take moves that got points. That is, after all, how you win.

jts · Post by **jts** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:14 am

Chew Terr wrote:Here's one I had pointed out at Congress: "If a move doesn't make points, it might or might not end up doing anything". This seems obvious, and it seems like there are a million exceptions to it. But basically, I had to start asking myself whether moves were likely to become dame for no reason. After that, I started finding more excuses to take moves that got points. That is, after all, how you win.

Did they mean specifically territory, or any kind of point-gaining move? If the latter, this seems kind of like a tautology: in go, points are what matter, so if it doesn't make points, it's not doing anything. If the former, it must be a tautology again, balanced on the "might". Any good move that doesn't change the balance of secure territory is changing the balance of potential territory (loosely speaking), so of course that potential might not become actual.

Post by **Solomon** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:47 am

Don't be afraid to get yourself in atari, even knowing it can get captured. This is Go, not Capture Go.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Black to play. $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ . O . . . . . , O . . | $$ . . . . . 3 O . . . . | $$ . . . . . 4 . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . 5 . 2 . . . | $$ . , . . 4 7 6 , . . . | $$ . . . . . 9 8 1 . . . | $$ . . . . . 0 . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Black to play. $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . 5 6 . . | $$ . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ . , . . O X O , . . . | $$ . . . . 3 X O X 4 . . | $$ . . . . . O 2 1 . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Where did White (Choi Cheolhan) play? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . X . . X O . | $$ | . . O O . . . O O X X O . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . O O O X X X O O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . X X . . . X . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . 2 . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:19 am

jts wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:Here's one I had pointed out at Congress: "If a move doesn't make points, it might or might not end up doing anything". This seems obvious, and it seems like there are a million exceptions to it. But basically, I had to start asking myself whether moves were likely to become dame for no reason. After that, I started finding more excuses to take moves that got points. That is, after all, how you win.

Did they mean specifically territory, or any kind of point-gaining move? If the latter, this seems kind of like a tautology: in go, points are what matter, so if it doesn't make points, it's not doing anything. If the former, it must be a tautology again, balanced on the "might". Any good move that doesn't change the balance of secure territory is changing the balance of potential territory (loosely speaking), so of course that potential might not become actual.

Yes, it may seem obvious/tautological. However, I found myself spending a lot of moves in what became dame later. For example, I would split living groups, or play a lot of moves building a wall that was more or less invalidated before I started building it. That sort of thing. So I was basically telling myself 'If this doesn't actually make territory, consider twice whether or not you have a plan for what it WILL do'.

jts · Post by **jts** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:29 am

Chew Terr wrote:Yes, it may seem obvious/tautological. However, I found myself spending a lot of moves in what became dame later. For example, I would split living groups, or play a lot of moves building a wall that was more or less invalidated before I started building it. That sort of thing. So I was basically telling myself 'If this doesn't actually make territory, consider twice whether or not you have a plan for what it WILL do'.

I guess... but then, it can be okay if your stones, even an entire wall, ends up as dame, or even as part of an opponent's territory. It depends on what you got in return. "OMG I need to make territory here" ends up in a distinctly low class of game. Bill Spight did a great post on how to use walls, with this lesson.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:31 am

jts wrote:I guess... but then, it can be okay if your stones, even an entire wall, ends up as dame, or even as part of an opponent's territory. It depends on what you got in return. "OMG I need to make territory here" ends up in a distinctly low class of game. Bill Spight did a great post on how to use walls, with this lesson.

Oh, sure. There's definitely a time and place. I was just in a phase of... forgetting the goal of the whole game, and wondering why I lost.

gowan · Post by **gowan** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:01 pm

If possible, when you make a defensive move make one that does more than just defend.

This is part of the general advice to make multipurpose moves, but so often I see players, when they need to play a defensive move (e.g. to protect a gorup under attack) make a move that has no other effect than defending. For example if you need to protect a group play a move that protects but also does something else like leave a big endgame move for later.

Post by **Solomon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:34 pm

gowan wrote:For example if you need to protect a group play a move that protects but also does something else like leave a big endgame move for later.

The best defense is a good offense. The hand which strikes also blocks.

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:41 pm

Araban wrote:
gowan wrote:For example if you need to protect a group play a move that protects but also does something else like leave a big endgame move for later.
The best defense is a good offense. The hand which strikes also blocks.

but the one I always had/have trouble with: close fist before striking

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