Hmm...maybe I overlooked when she went over it
. Ugh, and I had this excellent KGS lecture from willzhang when he covered this hamete too, can't find it though. If I have time, I might do some KGS archive digging cause now I'm curious.Bad beat stories.
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Solomon
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Re: Bad beat stories.
Hmm...maybe I overlooked when she went over it
. Ugh, and I had this excellent KGS lecture from willzhang when he covered this hamete too, can't find it though. If I have time, I might do some KGS archive digging cause now I'm curious.-
Solomon
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Re: Bad beat stories.
Here is when willzhang went over it (it was in summer '07), stripped out trash kibitz and left only willzhang and a few others' comment in there, which isn't much but I think there was audio so perhaps that's why there weren't so many texts from willzhang:
Pinpingho, who I don't know much about but seems he's AGA 6d, also covered it just prior to willzhang's lecture - stripped out the variations that didn't pertain to the hamete, but taking out all but the relevant kibitz would take too long since a lot of variations were covered so I just left that alone:
In any case, the empty triangle move wasn't brought up in either demonstrations. Not dismissing it, but just curious if you guys know of a textbook or a more authoritative lecture/demo on the hamete that contained the move.
Pinpingho, who I don't know much about but seems he's AGA 6d, also covered it just prior to willzhang's lecture - stripped out the variations that didn't pertain to the hamete, but taking out all but the relevant kibitz would take too long since a lot of variations were covered so I just left that alone:
In any case, the empty triangle move wasn't brought up in either demonstrations. Not dismissing it, but just curious if you guys know of a textbook or a more authoritative lecture/demo on the hamete that contained the move.
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fwiffo
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Re: Bad beat stories.
Jesus, I'm gonna have nightmares you guys. I don't ever want to be a dan player if it means facing hamete like that...
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Dusk Eagle
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Re: Bad beat stories.
I know what joseki I'm aiming for if I ever play against fwiffo We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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topazg
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Re: Bad beat stories.
fwiffo wrote:Jesus, I'm gonna have nightmares you guys. I don't ever want to be a dan player if it means facing hamete like that...
I told you it's an evil joseki. It's why as White I always fix one of the cuts instead of descending. It's simpler that way
Horrible yucky thing!
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HermanHiddema
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Re: Bad beat stories.
Harleqin wrote:I'd be interested in the correct refutation of that, Herman.
There isn't any. When black plays the ladder breaker, white should defend the cut. If white doesn't want to have to do that, then he shouldn't extend into the corner with R2, but play the hanging connection S4 instead. S4 is usually the safest option in this joseki anyway, as it also avoids the hamete variation.
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Solomon
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Re: Bad beat stories.
Harleqin wrote:Sorry, I meant Araban there (and his hamete).
I've attached a PDF which is from an old GOAMA newsletter that discusses this hamete, along with the refutation (which looks nice, as all nose tesujis do). I hope you find it helpful!
- Attachments
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- Trick-moves_contest1.pdf
- PDF that discusses hamete (from GOAMA newsletter).
- (46.18 KiB) Downloaded 455 times
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Jonas
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Re: Bad beat stories.
I really really hate this joseki, for me the flow of stones doesnt feel natural at all... therefore most of the time I try to play like this:
Bad beat stories? Back in my 5k-8k days there was a game I lost while filling dame-points. I had counted the game very very accuratly. I knew that I would end up winning with exactly 3,5 points. My opponent filled the last dame point and I immediately realised that I had to play another move in my territory to secure a cut because of it..... or not? I thought for several minutes and decided that it would be better to win with 3 points instead of 2 and didnt play the connection. Well some moves later my opponent was able to capture 2 stones and I lost by 1,5 points.
// Edit: Corrected the diagram code, messed up with the White/Black firstturn stuff in the headline of the diagram ^_^
Last edited by Jonas on Tue May 18, 2010 12:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Kirby
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Solomon
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Kirby
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Re: Bad beat stories.
Araban wrote:
He probably meant this:
Ah, it looks so obvious, now :-p
be immersed
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HermanHiddema
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Re: Bad beat stories.
Another option that seems to be popular recently:
after which there are several variations.
Personally I usually just play a next with white, which is relatively simple, but b is also an option.
after which there are several variations.
Personally I usually just play a next with white, which is relatively simple, but b is also an option.
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topazg
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