On playing against stronger players

[jts]

Better to play White against shodans until you can beat them.

Bill wrote this in another thread recently, and he's voiced the same sentiment before. It has been on my mind because for the last two months most of the games I've played have been in the ASR League on KGS - which, for those of you who don't know, is lots of unevenly matched players playing lots of games against each other with no handicap.

In most of these games, the victor is not in question. This removes a lot of the tension and drive from the game. If I play unusually well or unusually poorly that won't affect the outcome, so I'm much more relaxed. In the games where I'm favored to win, I can experiment in fuseki and joseki and then not really pay attention until I'm kind of behind, but then my opponent makes a mistake. In the games where I'm not favored, I fall behind rapidly and then vacillate between playing for a win and playing for the smallest margin.

So, any thoughts on how to get the most out of even games with stronger players?

[Solomon]

Play the board, not the opponent. I'm also in the ASR, and on the flip side I genuinely try to put as much effort into a game against a weaker player as I would against a stronger player. I'd be lying if I totally neglected their level from my mind, but for instance if you look through some of my ASR games you'll see in many of my games I spend more of my allotted time than my opponent who's 6+ stones lower than me.

[p2501]

Usually its hard to get even games with stronger opponents. See yourself as the sole beneficor of the game ^^

On DGS I usually put games in the waiting room starting at my rank and going up alot. Suprisingly many stronger plays pick up those games - they get a couple easy points and I learn something. Sometimes I even beat them ^^

[Magicwand]

Play the board, not the opponent.

i need to do that.

when i play stronger players i try to win by point oriented games using my handycap.
and play a move that are very defensive, slow, and not my style.

i think this happens to everyone who plays go.

[jts]

Thanks Araban. The board it will be.

[Bill Spight]

I think that people understand that my quote is an exaggeration.

There is research that indicates that the best tasks for achievement are those with a 50-50 chance of success, and that is what I recommend when choosing problems to work on. But I do not recommend playing opponents at your level. And if you play stronger players, I prefer taking an inadequate handicap.

Perhaps that is inconsistent, especially the part about the inadequate handicap. But for me, anyway, actual play stimulates a fire in the belly and sometimes what Billie Jean King calls raising your game a level. Almost every amateur can play one game one stone stronger than his or her rank. And if you can play one game stronger, why not every game?

In The Killer of Go Sakata recommends trying to kill your teacher's stones. I think that that is the right attitude if you want to advance.

So, any thoughts on how to get the most out of even games with stronger players?

Play to win.

[Suji]

Better to play White against shodans until you can beat them.

I think that people understand that my quote is an exaggeration.

I think that the above quote is far more accurate than you believe.

There is research that indicates that the best tasks for achievement are those with a 50-50 chance of success, and that is what I recommend when choosing problems to work on. But I do not recommend playing opponents at your level. And if you play stronger players, I prefer taking an inadequate handicap.

Perhaps that is inconsistent, especially the part about the inadequate handicap. But for me, anyway, actual play stimulates a fire in the belly and sometimes what Billie Jean King calls raising your game a level. Almost every amateur can play one game one stone stronger than his or her rank. And if you can play one game stronger, why not every game?

In The Killer of Go Sakata recommends trying to kill your teacher's stones. I think that that is the right attitude if you want to advance.

So, any thoughts on how to get the most out of even games with stronger players?

Play to win.

I think that Bill really hits the nail on the head here. In a game with a stronger person, you are constantly stretched and exposed to new things. The only way to get better is by assimilating the new information regardless of the difficulty. By constantly learning while playing the stronger player you'll get better naturally. After a time, you'll start to beat them easily. At that point I'd advise that you find stronger players to again play against.

[tezza]

Hi jts,

Well I tend to experiment in all my games (that's why even now I lose to 30k's! ) In an even game against much stronger players, I still experiment with the added idea of "let's see how close we can make this". I really enjoy these games.

Recently a 11k demolished my positions. I played so weakly, I estimated a 60+ point loss before I resigned (could not see any more worthwhile move). But I had fun!

Hmmn, not sure I answered your question.

Cheers
tezza