daniel_the_smith
Gosei
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by daniel_the_smith Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:47 pm
Q15 for $300, please. If that works then obviously I made a mistake. I think fuago is too scatterbrained.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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emeraldemon
Gosei
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by emeraldemon Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:24 pm
$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
First, I'd like to make a few comments about the
exchange. Fuego has already made a few similar exchanges this game. First were the forcing moves in the lower right corner; I liked Daniel's response "respect for opponent is... dropping". Then there was the exchange of F3 for F2 in the lower left.
I can only speculate, but here's what I think: if a move has a semi-obvious sente followup, that usually means ignoring it is quite bad, which means that a pseudo-random playout would value the move quite highly. This is just a guess, but I think the randomness of monte-carlo playouts might lead Fuego to over-value sente exchanges. And in this particular example, multiple players stronger than me have pointed out the dangerous aji of that corner, so I don't think it's a huge loss for Fuego to play this way. On to the next move:
Value: 48.5 %
Sequence:
$$Bcm63 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm63 No PrisonersI strongly expect Daniel to block at F15, but I don't see any harm in not triggering it
emeraldemon
Gosei
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by emeraldemon Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:27 pm
As a side note: would there be any interest in creating a Mac application for Fuego? If people think they would use it, I could try to make a binary for Mac users.
Laman
Lives in gote
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by Laman Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:55 pm
emeraldemon: if you trigger a sequence, i suppose you run Fuego again from the new board position (after 1-2), correct? because while Fuego is pretty good in choosing one move, its predictions further to future are often nonsensical, so i think just triggering 1-2-3 from its prediction could give a suboptimal result. or doesn't it matter?
Spilling gasoline feels good.
emeraldemon
Gosei
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by emeraldemon Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:04 am
Laman wrote: emeraldemon: if you trigger a sequence, i suppose you run Fuego again from the new board position (after 1-2), correct? because while Fuego is pretty good in choosing one move, its predictions further to future are often nonsensical, so i think just triggering 1-2-3 from its prediction could give a suboptimal result. or doesn't it matter?
Yes, if I make a trigger, I run Fuego for the full time again after playing the move. This particular case wasn't actually a trigger, I just numbered the 61-62 exchange for clarity since Daniel didn't make a diagram.
daniel_the_smith
Gosei
Posts: 2116 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 amRank: 2d AGAGD Posts: 1193KGS: lavalampTygem: imapenguinIGS: lavalampOGS: daniel_the_smithLocation: Silicon ValleyHas thanked: 152 times Been thanked: 330 times
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by daniel_the_smith Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:17 am
$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm61 No PrisonersSorry 'bout the lack of diagramage last time, was on my phone. Which I have subsequently lost.
Oh, and this sequence is *probably* a huge overplay. But fuego has yet to impress me with its local play...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project:
http://dailyjoseki.com
emeraldemon
Gosei
Posts: 1744 Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 1:33 pmGD Posts: 0KGS: greendemonTygem: greendemonDGS: smaragdaemonOGS: emeraldemonHas thanked: 697 times Been thanked: 287 times
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by emeraldemon Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:41 am
$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
Value: 48.1%
Sequence:
$$Bcm65 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm65 No PrisonersFrom this sequence it seems like Fuego may try to engage in a capturing race with the stones on the left. I'm very curious to see how this will turn out.
daniel_the_smith
Gosei
Posts: 2116 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 amRank: 2d AGAGD Posts: 1193KGS: lavalampTygem: imapenguinIGS: lavalampOGS: daniel_the_smithLocation: Silicon ValleyHas thanked: 152 times Been thanked: 330 times
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by daniel_the_smith Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:12 am
$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm61 No PrisonersBy 1-2-3, I don't atari first. I'm actually feeling pretty good about this fight, I think I'll get something out of it...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project:
http://dailyjoseki.com
Solomon
Gosei
Posts: 1848 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:21 pmRank: AGA 5dGD Posts: 0KGS: Capsule 4dTygem: 치킨까스 5dLocation: Bellevue, WAHas thanked: 90 times Been thanked: 835 times
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by Solomon Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:03 am
emeraldemon
Gosei
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by emeraldemon Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:54 am
$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
sequence:
$$Bcm67 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm67 No Prisoners
kwhyte
Dies in gote
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by kwhyte Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:59 pm
emeraldemon wrote: As a side note: would there be any interest in creating a Mac application for Fuego? If people think they would use it, I could try to make a binary for Mac users.
I absolutely would, I just spent a few hours last week looking for one online.
daniel_the_smith
Gosei
Posts: 2116 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 amRank: 2d AGAGD Posts: 1193KGS: lavalampTygem: imapenguinIGS: lavalampOGS: daniel_the_smithLocation: Silicon ValleyHas thanked: 152 times Been thanked: 330 times
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by daniel_the_smith Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:28 am
$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm61 No PrisonersSorry for the delay. No moves look good to me.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project:
http://dailyjoseki.com
emeraldemon
Gosei
Posts: 1744 Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 1:33 pmGD Posts: 0KGS: greendemonTygem: greendemonDGS: smaragdaemonOGS: emeraldemonHas thanked: 697 times Been thanked: 287 times
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by emeraldemon Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:12 am
$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm61 No Prisoners
value: 49.0%
Sequence:
$$Bcm69 No Prisoners
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm69 No PrisonersI assume Daniel will connect, so I'll wait until next move to write some analysis.
flOvermind
Lives with ko
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by flOvermind Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:00 am
If the sequence really turns out the way Fuego thinks it will, especially with white getting 72, then I think white essentially has a won game. White will get a huge attack on the left side black stones and the top left corner. If the top white stones die (and that's a big if), it could get close again, but I don't think that would be enough to catch up completely...
Of course, Fuego could change its mind about 71, so this is all pretty speculative right now
emeraldemon
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by emeraldemon Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:50 pm
Is this game still on? I don't want to rush you, just wondering.
exchange. Fuego has already made a few similar exchanges this game. First were the forcing moves in the lower right corner; I liked Daniel's response "respect for opponent is... dropping". Then there was the exchange of F3 for F2 in the lower left. 
