Piracy in the Go industry.

[Solomon]

I figure I should reveal something about my own piracy habits. For me, I've always been more of a fan of finding music and videos on streaming sites than by downloading to my computer. I can list many franchises I became a customer of after starting off with unauthorized copies, and which I never would have bought their products at all if it weren't for those copies.

Fullmetal Alchemist - I watched the first half of this show online, and bought DVD box sets for the second half because I liked it so much. I later got my sister into this show, and she's watched the entire series on streaming websites at least 4 times. As a result of her fandom, she now owns around ten books of the manga, and my brother and I own a few of the books as well. She finished the manga online because the publisher was too slow getting the later installments published over here, but even after reading the entire thing online she bought a couple more books.

Pokemon - I watched a lot of the Advanced Generation anime on streaming sites, and because I was a fan I would occasionally buy DVDs containing a few episodes that were coming up so I could watch them in higher quality and also show my support for the franchise. I own about 8 DVDs, but I'm at my parents' house for the weekend and can't check the exact number. All this goes without mentioning how being a fan of the anime made me a virtual lock to buy Pokemon Pearl when it came out.

Looking at my own life, my piracy has definitely lead me to spend more on media then I likely would have otherwise. Obviously you need some actual studies before making firm conclusions about the effects of piracy on sales, but from looking at my own life it doesn't seem like a ridiculous notion that piracy can lead to increased exposure and thus increased sales.

It's unfortunate that the scientific paper is in Japanese, but nonetheless: http://www.rieti.go.jp/en/publications/ ... 10021.html

[Solomon]

Also, regarding my own views on the matter: Piracy is something that can't be stopped with the given technology today and business models have to work with it, not fight against it. DRM and lecturing people on how piracy is bad and sending pirates on a guilt trip is a waste of time and effort. Look at Crunchyroll. Spotify. Steam. If it's convenient and reasonably priced, you can take my money.

[kirkmc]

As Topazg pointed out, John's books are a niche in a niche market. They're great; entertaining, well written, and full of interesting information, but most go players aren't interested in what he has to offer. Problem books most likely sell better.

(An aside: I've heard of Bart Ehrman, but never read him. But he's had several books that sold quite well, so he's not exactly a niche author.)

Regarding mohsart's two examples. Comics store, yes; probably affected. Punk rock label; I think that's hit or miss. If it were a punk rock record store, then I'd think it's more of a valid example, but people may not be buying the music simply because it's not very good. (Not a value judgement, having been a punk back in the day, but music is not always of the same quality over time.)

[John Fairbairn]

I don't think this is a "contribution" (of my type), so I'm not breaching my intentions, but it's been interesting to see that once the dam broke the piracy confessions have flooded out, which makes me even happier that I've decided to drop out. The pirates think they've lost nothing, but at least they've lost my contributions, whatever they were worth.

More than a few of the flood of posts show what is wrong with L19. The thread started unintentionally with a throw-away remark by me, but picked up by someone else, that it "looks like the pirates have won". It has since been turned into an assumption that I wrote some sort of essay on piracy, and then into an assumption that I was beefing about sales of my own books.

Some of us (not the pirates, obviously) can take a stand on principles alone. I was told that my Kamakura was the best/fastest selling S&S book ever, and it was reprinted after just about a year. The other books have come close. Even if they hadn't done well enough, I'm retired and don't depend on go money in any way. So it is not about me or my piggy bank. But at the same time I hear strong suggestions that three go publishers may never publish another paper book and that even some Oriental go publishers have gone bankrupt. The change to digital may seem like an option, and over time it may be, but at the moment it is just too small a market to attract new authors or translators so most of the market will have to be the smaller one of reprints of paper books. I have therefore been speaking up on behalf of a beleaguered industry which I happen to believe is essential for the good of go as a whole, simply because it is a niche game. Its communicators need to be nurtured. The success of go in the 20th century was not down to Honinbo Shusai, Go Seigen or Yi Ch'ang-ho. It was down almost entirely to the journalists and publishers who wrote about go for a mass audience and tailor made the products by which they could communicate. It was no whim that I dedicated one of my books to the Fukumenshis.

(I will now leave this thread for good.)

[mohsart]

Punk rock label; I think that's hit or miss. If it were a punk rock record store, then I'd think it's more of a valid example, but people may not be buying the music simply because it's not very good. (Not a value judgement, having been a punk back in the day, but music is not always of the same quality over time.)

It IS possible that records that has sold very well year after year suddenly has become less popular, and that bands that draws the same amount of audience gig after gig suddenly cannot sell records any more.
Somehow I doubt it though, and that the drop in sales started when piracy did, and accellerated when piracy became easier seems like more than a coincidence.
Also, keep in mind that a small record company like that don't get their records distributed as easy as larger companies, so they sell "much" directly to the customers via mail order and at concerts.

I don't have any information about when they started selling downloads, and it's really not valid to what I was trying to say.

/Mats

[topazg]

Somehow I doubt it though, and that the drop in sales started when piracy did, and accellerated when piracy became easier seems like more than a coincidence.

/Mats

It may however be a proxy for something else. I think the ease by which so much digital media is available legitimately has raised the bar for people to provide they media on a platform that is accessible, user-friendly, and hassle free. People expect to be able to go from "hearing about something/someone" to "I have a copy where I want it, how I want it" within 10 minutes these days, and people who's primary distribution platforms involve things like merchandise at concerts I suspect are suffering as a result of that. It's not going to affect ticket sales and gate entries, because people attend for the atmosphere and the ambience of live performances which can't be replicated at home. For simply having a copy of the music to listen to, people expect to be spoon fed.

I'm not asserting that piracy doesn't negatively impact bands either, but I suspect detrimental impacts will be minimal for artists embracing new platforms that enable average consumer to be able to acquire what they want, when they want it.

[hyperpape]

I don't have any information about when they started selling downloads, and it's really not valid to what I was trying to say.

If people stop buying CDs and you don't sell digitally, your sales will suffer, piracy or no. I doubt anything could be more relevant.

[hyperpape]

John has said he's bowed out, but I am confused by one point: he said the pirates have won just after mentioning that his own book was not being published, but then says that his books sold very well and he was not complaining about his own sales.

How do you reconcile those comments? Is it that Slate and Shell is going under entirely and thus will publish no books, or that the good sales of Kamakura etc. aren't enough to justify new books, or what? Maybe I don't understand publishing so well.

[mohsart]

I suspect detrimental impacts will be minimal for artists embracing new platforms that enable average consumer to be able to acquire what they want, when they want it.

Which was the point I was trying to make.
Piracy is here to stay and companies that wants to survive has to cope with it.
Exactly how go books publishers and -authors should do, I don't know.

If people stop buying CDs and you don't sell digitally, your sales will suffer, piracy or no. I doubt anything could be more relevant.

As I wrote, sales are catchin up since they started selling downloads. I fail to see the relevance of exactly when they started, but let's say three years ago if it makes you happy.

/Mats

[cata]

I stole a whole bunch of Go books (probably that same pack other people are talking about) and they've helped me a fair bit. However, I bought John's book "The Go Consultants," which was awesome. Thanks for writing that one, John! Sorry to see you go.

I'm pretty sure that the primary marketplace for Go books in a few years will be in-app purchases on tablets, e.g. through apps like SmartGo that provide the books in a semi-interactive form. Those sorts of purchases have low friction and are easy to buy on a whim, and will be a lot more appealing than getting some silly pirated PDF.

[snorri]

I don't think this is a "contribution" (of my type), so I'm not breaching my intentions, but it's been interesting to see that once the dam broke the piracy confessions have flooded out, which makes me even happier that I've decided to drop out. The pirates think they've lost nothing, but at least they've lost my contributions, whatever they were worth.

A lot of non-pirates lose, too. I own 1 of your books (Kamakura) and it is so awesome that it takes me much time to go through it and it seems to resist any kind of rushing very stubbornly. I fully intend to buy all of your books (I own over 150 go books on various topics in various languages, none pirated) but actually you may be the first go author who seems to have the ability to publish books faster than I can read them. Most go books are the equivalent of cheap romance novels. You can read them whenever, wherever and at a rapid pace since very little new information is being conveyed. Kamakura is certainly not like that and I'm sure the others are top quality as well.

Since I have never met you in person (I have met T Mark a few times) I sometimes suspect that you are not an individual but more like the Bourbaki. I hope you do not disappear form L19, but rather take up some psuedonyms and challenge us all from different directions. And I do read New In Go, so I hope you can continue with that.

If your books start to look like they will go out of print, I may have to pre-buy them faster than I can handle them, something I am loathe to do. I definitely think they are worth the money but I'd have to find place to hide them from my wife. Maybe I can get a gun safe to put in the crawl space. It's always may job to go there if there is a problem with the plumbing or rodents or whatever anyway. But then I'd have to start explaining to my wife why my workouts in the basement suddenly result in being covered in dirt. Maybe I need a bachelor friend to hold them for me, like an adult film collection. This requires some thought...

[Mef]

John has said he's bowed out, but I am confused by one point: he said the pirates have won just after mentioning that his own book was not being published, but then says that his books sold very well and he was not complaining about his own sales.

How do you reconcile those comments? Is it that Slate and Shell is going under entirely and thus will publish no books, or that the good sales of Kamakura etc. aren't enough to justify new books, or what? Maybe I don't understand publishing so well.

Well assuming we are talking about his Jowa book (based on the comment that spawned this thread) his actual statements were:

- A single go book (Kamakura) had unusually strong sales
- A second go book (Jowa) was delayed in the print queue

A couple ways these could be reconciled:

"The success of a single title has not been enough to offset the overall negative outlook for go book market to an extent the publisher must carefully time when they produce and release a new title."

or

"While one title has shown success, publishers must still wait until they have recouped the costs of other titles already printed before they can continue to put out new titles."

or perhaps even

"Given that a single title has shown profitability in an otherwise diminishing market, publishers are taking more care in choosing only titles that appear to be capable of recovering costs in a reasonable timeframe"

(Note: this would also explain why his problem book is also having trouble getting published)

[shyin]

Also, regarding my own views on the matter: Piracy is something that can't be stopped with the given technology today and business models have to work with it, not fight against it. DRM and lecturing people on how piracy is bad and sending pirates on a guilt trip is a waste of time and effort. Look at Crunchyroll. Spotify. Steam. If it's convenient and reasonably priced, you can take my money.

Unfortunately, Crunchyroll have terrible subs with some sentences even missing sometimes. Instead, they just put a "?" when they can't translate, which for a paid service, is actually offensive, in my opinion. But I agree with you, I can't see why people still try to fight piracy. It's just not going to work, no matter how many websites are closed or how many people are arrested.

[hyperpape]

Mef, he actually said that the other 5 titles were almost as successful as Kamakura. Or perhaps he meant close to a second printing. I'm not 100% sure based on the phrasing.

The point about recouping costs is also a reasonable possibility.

[RobertJasiek]

I can't see why people still try to fight piracy.

If pirats aren't fought, then they will become as successful as thieves who are not fought. If anarchy is not fought, then the world lives in anarchy instead of having high culture societies.

I stole a whole bunch of Go books

IMO, such statements on this forum violate the spirit of the forum rule "6. Piracy / Posts requesting for anything illegal or copyrighted are not allowed." because they request acknowledgement for having done some copyright violation and try to establish a discussion climate in that an increasing number of such statements buries defense of copyright.

they've helped me a fair bit. [...] some silly pirated PDF.

They can't be both: A source for having helped you a fair bit and silly.