Book or PDF?

Don't know what book to read next? Have a killer reading list for improving joseki knowledge? This is this place.

Which do you prefer to purchase?

book
20
34%
PDF for roughly half the book's price
20
34%
both book and PDF for the book's price
13
22%
other
5
9%
 
Total votes: 58

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kirkmc
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by kirkmc »

RobertJasiek wrote:
kirkmc wrote:the page size, and the font size, of your first book are not as small.


Page size I am writing on A5 to keep the option of printing a book. Big font is 11 pt, example comments maybe again 10, diagram captions 9. I have chosen a different stone diameter though to make reading diagrams in PDFs easier.

I am not sure with what you compare "not as small". Aren't Kiseido books typically of about the same size? Some Ishi Press books were significantly smaller - so small that I would have to double numbers of pages, which is impossible for printing:)


The Kiseido books are the smaller Ishi sized pages. Have you bought any of them? You should have a look; they work very well on different sized devices.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by RobertJasiek »

The first typical Kiseido book I could find in my shelves, Making Good Shape, has A5 size (same as my books) and margins in mm top 8, bottom 10, outer 12, inner ca. 13. My books have greater margins: top 15, bottom 12, outer 14, inner 20. You claim the opposite but maybe you mean ONLY smartgo books, which I have not seen yet? I have meant printed books.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by Mivo »

I would (and do) buy electronic books in the ePub format. I have not, and may not be as easily convinced to, bought something in PDF, because I never quite liked that format and find it more inflexible. I prefer it for the precise reasons (fonts) why you don't like it. :) But hey, you asked and you are the one wanting the customer's money (admittedly, that's inconvenient).
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by kirkmc »

RobertJasiek wrote:The first typical Kiseido book I could find in my shelves, Making Good Shape, has A5 size (same as my books) and margins in mm top 8, bottom 10, outer 12, inner ca. 13. My books have greater margins: top 15, bottom 12, outer 14, inner 20. You claim the opposite but maybe you mean ONLY smartgo books, which I have not seen yet? I have meant printed books.


The books they sell digitally include All About Thickness, which is "Ishi" size, and Kato's Attack and Kill, which is the smaller size, like Lessons in the Fundamental. I think Breakthrough to Shodan is bigger, but I don't have that one.

Of course, you could have found that for yourself:

http://www.kiseidodigital.com/kdb.html
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by edgy »

RobertJasiek wrote:
CnP wrote:a risk it won't get read as a pdf


The risk is very low for PDF/A or PDF with a similarly basic file format functionality.


I think he meant "risk" in a psychological (rather than technological) sense. I feel that way--a physical book taking up space on my desk or shelf is a constant reminder that I should read it. A file on my computer is easier to forget about. So for me, an e-book (in any format) has to be discounted for that risk (among other things).

Especially this is true of things requiring work to read, like instructional Go books. A PDF novel I might put on my phone and read on the bus, but not a joseki textbook. I think a reference book wouldn't have this problem, though.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by CnP »

yup, sorry for the ambiguity I meant I'm more likely to forget about it if it's just sitting on my computer rather than a physical thing I can carry around in my bag etc. I haven't really gotten used to reading books on my tablet pc either. I agree PDFs can be read on pretty much any computer.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by RobertJasiek »

While I do not plan ePub any time soon, I am curious how it works. Currently I have some dense A5 whole page tables only with text in the cells. Increasing the font would mean that the table exceeds the screen in all four directions. How would such a table be viewed on a small screen? Another problem I see is comparing information in successive rows of two diagrams each, one left one right, and explaining text ("in the left diagram [...] "in the right diagram") in between. In other words, such layout comfort supporting the reader's understanding of contents would have to be destroyed and the text altered to allow also for flowing diagrams and texts in only one column. Is that how ePub works?
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by Sheeple »

Regarding how stuff will look on a small screen: if it's PDF and it does not fit, my reader will zoom to fit to page, which means it becomes unreadable for too small fonts. Of course zooming is possible, but then you have to pan around the page, and again not everything fits on the screen at the same time. And i suggest you try doing that with an ebook reader, because screen redraw is not exactly instantaneous on eInk displays. Imagine scrolling through this thread when each screen refresh takes a second and you have to scroll vertically and horizontally to read each post.
This means ePub (or other formats that allow appropriate pageturns) are the only real option.

So i agree with your sentiment that small displays suck, especially when you optimized the layout for a fixed size, which is pretty nice.
Regardless of that, sticking to PDF is not a solution and will result in a worse experience than a format that allows the page layout to change.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by RobertJasiek »

So it seems that easy layout go books can be written for every file format while for advanced layout go books small screens are hardly a serious option for both authors and readers.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by Nagilum »

I just voted for the good old book.

I read very often in your newest book Joseki/Strategy, but that is nothing i want to do via a normal screen. With an ereader like Kindle it would be perhaps a little bit more acceptable. But i often browse through the book. An ereader is too slow for this.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by RobertJasiek »

Nagilum wrote:An ereader is too slow for this.


Thank you and others for telling me that! I considered getting an ereader because I am not convinced by current tablets yet but being too slow even for ebooks is a killer argument...!
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by kirkmc »

RobertJasiek wrote:
Nagilum wrote:An ereader is too slow for this.


Thank you and others for telling me that! I considered getting an ereader because I am not convinced by current tablets yet but being too slow even for ebooks is a killer argument...!


He didn't mean a tablet. He meant an e-ink device, like the Kindle. Their redraw time is a lot longer than that of a tablet, but it's not a deal-breaker in my opinion. It's more the flash that's annoying when you switch pages.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by RobertJasiek »

Flash? Something like brightest white or like switching on an old TV for a fraction of a second? Then I would agree; it is not what one wants when reading ebooks.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by HermanHiddema »

RobertJasiek wrote:Flash? Something like brightest white or like switching on an old TV for a fraction of a second? Then I would agree; it is not what one wants when reading ebooks.


Not like that. E-ink has no backlight, its pixels basically consists of microscopic little balls with one dark and one light side, which it can turn one way or the other to make text/images. You need an external light source to read, just like with a normal book, which is why it reads so pleasantly. To keep the little balls aligned, on every page switch, it turns them all dark, then all light, then turns the text dark again. This is what kirk is referring to as "flash". Personally, I find it no more annoying than the necessary page flip on a traditional book. It doesn't bother me at all.
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Re: Book or PDF?

Post by kirkmc »

HermanHiddema wrote:
RobertJasiek wrote:Flash? Something like brightest white or like switching on an old TV for a fraction of a second? Then I would agree; it is not what one wants when reading ebooks.


Not like that. E-ink has no backlight, its pixels basically consists of microscopic little balls with one dark and one light side, which it can turn one way or the other to make text/images. You need an external light source to read, just like with a normal book, which is why it reads so pleasantly. To keep the little balls aligned, on every page switch, it turns them all dark, then all light, then turns the text dark again. This is what kirk is referring to as "flash". Personally, I find it no more annoying than the necessary page flip on a traditional book. It doesn't bother me at all.


It's not a problem when you read normally, but if you leaf through a book, or want to skip ahead a lot, it's annoying.
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