138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

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Loons
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Loons »

Checking the forums right before going to bed may lead to dangerous insomnia.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . l . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . m . W . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . a . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . b . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I'm leaning quite heavily towards 'a' after which I expect b, and then I can go back to investigating plays on eg. the right.

My initial thought was 'l', followed by 'm', followed by 'a' and also some thinking about attachments.
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Loons »

Sorry about my extreme tardiness.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

At some point here I seem to have lost -_-. I guess that was just a little inevitable. I'll try to incite a fight; maybe I will be lucky.
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by pancake »

Ah, he can still make something on the left. I think this game will be pretty hopeless for me from now on, have to win it on good endgame, if it comes to that. Anyway, if I don't jump out here, the game is over even sooner, so the move is obvious.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . W . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Chew Terr »

If both players claim to have lost, can I take the win? =P
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Jedo »

Ha, this is the exact opposite of a Magicwand/Violence game
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Magicwand »

Jedo wrote:
Ha, this is the exact opposite of a Magicwand/Violence game

since i am unbiased here...
as of now the game is very close...
if i had to choose.....i will take black.
but i wont feel comfortable taking either black or white.
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by jts »

Jedo wrote:
Ha, this is the exact opposite of a Magicwand/Violence game


I thought the exact same thing.
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by konfuzed »

Jedo wrote:
Ha, this is the exact opposite of a Magicwand/Violence game


Hah, I'm so glad I'm not the only one thinking that. I think Malkovich games where the players have sharply conflicting interpretations of the board are the most fun to watch.
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . W . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm not really planning to play 55 at L13, really. The scenario, as I see it:
1) I find something on the right that enables me to use my influence
or
2) I find a good place to resign
arghhh.sgf
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by yithril »

His last move is clearly in the wrong direction, I don't see where he is going to make territory with this attack. With his initial attack I thought he was going to make a center moyo, but now I don't know. I think White should walk into Black's potential, and then later connect to his right group. If Black had attacked from the left, White would just connect on dame.
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Magicwand »

if white attache as below...it is very hard to kill.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . W . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by pancake »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

No time to explain why.

I probably will make at most one move the rest of the week and none in the weekend. Sorry for that.
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Loons »

No problem, I need the time to think!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm55 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . 1 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I give white's move a 9/10 for thickness, but only a 6/10 for connectiness (connectivity?). So the plan is to make white's group run to over there, hopefully while actually getting a few points.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm55 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . 1 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . a , . . . . . , . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . y . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . p O m O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . o n l . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . b . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ { AR L9 G4}[/go]
My choice boiled down (somewhat arbitrarily, maybe :P) to :b55: or 'y' to cut. :b55: seemed to leave a narrower path, though it may pay a few points in reduction on top due to white's solidity (attacking with a contact play -_-). Aesthetically, K11 is now a play at the centre of 3.

I'd like lmnop aji to be useful. I think a is the correct local move over there. I'm never going to find time to play b.

I did consider :b55: at...
M11 but felt unsatisfied after N11 L11 N12
as well as
M13 and M14 both of which felt too passive to actually win the game.

Edit:
Actually, I wonder if I can just let him connect the normal way, though it may leave my moyo too fluffy (getting a bit late in the game to have a moyo...)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm55 Still not sure on 59
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . 2 1 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 3 . . 4 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Just trying to replay the game by memory;
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pancake
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by pancake »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm55 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . W X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I don't think there's any other way to connect here. If he cuts it will become way too big.
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Loons
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Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . W X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O 1 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Eh, backing off (eg K13) may be a sounder option, but I feel like I need to play very actively to win. Also, gotta avoid making that broken large knight's move :P.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
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