Influence vs territory question

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Magicwand
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Re: Influence vs territory question

Post by Magicwand »

first..you diag and sgf are different..it makes difference.

i think :b23: was waste of aji..could have handled it better...
i drew 3 variations and i dont see anything good for white...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B23 Starting position.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X 7 3 O . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B23 Starting position.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . 3 O . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B23 Starting position.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]





and another waste on move on top left...

i really think black is better after penuki.
i am surprised to find many people think white is better..
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Solomon
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Re: Influence vs territory question

Post by Solomon »

Regarding the OP's question, to me it is clearly better for Black. Hell I'd take Black even if White had sente.
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Bill Spight
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Re: Influence vs territory question

Post by Bill Spight »

IMO the White territory and the Black thickness are roughly equal. (White is slightly better, perhaps, because of the tiny amount of aji of the White stone touching the Black wall.)

That said, Black has a stone in two of the other corners, and White has one. So Black is ahead overall. In addition, it is Black's move. So I, too, prefer Black. :)
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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

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lindentree
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Re: Influence vs territory question

Post by lindentree »

:lol: , looking back at my question and original thoughts, I seem to have been asking not whether White was better off, but whether White could even continue the game after giving up so much thickness.
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Bill Spight
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Re: Influence vs territory question

Post by Bill Spight »

lindentree wrote::lol: , looking back at my question and original thoughts, I seem to have been asking not whether White was better off, but whether White could even continue the game after giving up so much thickness.


It's not over till the fat lady sings.

--Go proverb (very loose translation ;))
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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