#142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

1986 · Post by **1986** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:29 pm

take your time every move counts in go
take as much time as you need my brother
i dont mind at all

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:01 pm

mafidufa,

My point to 1986 was he probably meant to say he did not like W to get this shape (or moyo):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Because his move :b6:

(

) did not "stop W from playing :w1:

":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

But globally, W(a) feels a bit early to me,
because (a) is clearly not the biggest area right now.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm6 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Locally, something like this may happen; it's a fight:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Other ideas for :b2:

include: (a) attach, (b) kosumi, (c) tenuki...

-- your nobi feels a bit heavy to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . b a . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

So, read, read, read... :study:

mafidufa wrote:how to do numbers over 10, is there a faq post for making these diagrams?

Create another diagram to continue over move 10. See also viewtopic.php?f=5&t=226

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:06 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

1986 · Post by **1986** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:49 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . 1 . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hailthorn011- this is move number 9- we gotta get these numbers going back correct now your move is number 10

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:13 pm

I agree. It got weird lol. Hopefully the move numbers stay accurate this time.

1986 · Post by **1986** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:21 pm

i agree

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:54 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:35 pm

I would have played the one point jump, as I'm sure many of us would. This tewari is possibly the best explanation I can come up with as to why.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner: I AM NOT A NUMBER I'M A FREE MAN $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . 1 . . 2 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I feel a bit like the players have been preoccupied with top.

1986 · Post by **1986** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:38 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O 1 . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:57 pm

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:38 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

lightvector · Post by **lightvector** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:31 pm

For anyone, including players:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Shoulder hit, black's top side is reduced. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . B 2 . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 3 . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

Shoulder hits are diagonal contact plays that come from above (farther from the edge). They induce the opponent to strengthen himself and take territory, but by coming from above, they build influence and keep the opponent from expanding. This makes them good at reducing frameworks.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 Armpit hit $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 3 . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . B . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

The move in the game is an "armpit hit" because it comes from underneath (closer to the edge). Armpit hits are often bad. They also induce the opponent to block and strengthen himself, but by coming from below instead of above, they give away influence instead of building it. They are usually played to eke out a few small points in places where the opponent is already very strong, so that making him a bit stronger doesn't matter. Such as in the endgame, or during an invasion when it is good enough just to make immediate life.

1986 wrote:never ignore a shoulder hit (go proverb)

If you are on the receiving end of either type of move, the very first move you should think of in response is to block or press it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Block the diagonal contact $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 2 . . . X 2 . . . . 2 1 . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . 1 . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

1986 · Post by **1986** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:29 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i know im doing too much, i have high ambitions right :mrgreen:

,

but really the purpose of this move is to ask the question what side do you want?
A or B
after he answers, i can better play my next move with a global view

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:35 pm

For players and all,

lightvector wrote:
$$W Shoulder hit, black's top side is reduced.
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . B 2 . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 3 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Shoulder hit, black's top side is reduced. $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . B 2 . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 3 . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

In this case, B replying on the 3rd line seems submissive. Instead, B can consider to attack:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Shoulder hit may come under attack. $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . # X O . | $$ | . . O . . B . . B . . . . . . # O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 2 1 . . . . . # O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . a b . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . # O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . # . . . |[/go]

Because: the :bc:

group is already settled, and B is thick at :bs:

.
So the first job of :b2:

is to split :w1:

from its friends.
Next B can consider nobi (a) or wedge (b). But to attack or not depends on the rest of the board.

Perhaps the following is a better example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X 6 2 B . O . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 4 1 . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:40 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

#142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986

Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986