27. topazg (1d) vs. Numsgil (8k)

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topazg
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm118 Move 118 - W: 0, B: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . 1 X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Strategy and Thoughts
Must stay consistent with the big plan... If I wanted the corner, I should have crosscut.
Tactics and Variations
Normally extending is correct, but there's the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm118 Move 118 - W: 0, B: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . 2 1 5 . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . a X O X 6 . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X 3 . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm certain "a" is supposed to work in some situations, but I can't quite remember how, and if I play it out, get it wrong (or find that this is a situation where it doesn't work!) I lose out badly.

If extends, so will I, if he captures, I'm going to connect solidly, aiming at the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm118 Move 118 - W: 0, B: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . 1 X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . 3 O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Edit: No, I'm not, that's silly. If I was going to let him connect, why play the corner probe in the first place. I don't like playing for the ko because he can cut instead of fight a ko, but how about:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm118 Move 118 - W: 0, B: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . a . 2 . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X 3 1 X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It's that or "a" probably. I should have gone for the corner :(

Bleh, that's a nonsense move too, it doesn't work. I'm going to ko it.
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Chew Terr
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by Chew Terr »

unkx:
What if black plays 6 instead of 2?
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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topazg
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by topazg »

Further thoughts:
I'm such a numpty. The next move should be the key point, and the whole purpose of playing on this side in the first place:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm118 Move 118 - W: 0, B: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . a . 2 . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . 1 X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . c . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . b . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now I may be able to rescue those stones to kill the top edge with "a", or if Black plays to stay safe, I can get "b" instead. If I manage to get "c" as well, I've made another 50 or so points in the middle. That gives me about 130 points, so as long as I can keep Black below 60, I'll be fine. When this middle fuseki-ish-thing has finished playing out, I'll count.
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by prokofiev »

Chew Terr wrote:unkx:
What if black plays 6 instead of 2?
Here's my reading:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . 7 3 . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . 5 4 X O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X 6 1 X O X X . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . 2 O X O 9 . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . . . . a X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
8 at 1. (6 at 'a' is the same.)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . b 3 a . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . 5 X O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . 1 X O X X . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . 2 O X O 6 . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . . . . 4 X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This seems better for black, but probably white is still okay (at least white can live: 7 takes, and then white has an eye at 'a' and miai for an eye at P18 and at 'b').
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by Chew Terr »

Prokofiev:
Right, thanks =D. The second diagram is what I was trying to read out in my head, but you're right, white seems to be okay. Regardless, living on the side or corner isn't topazg's intent, so it's moot. Still, practice reading for us.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm119 Move 119 - W: 0, B: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Tactics and Variations
I either extend or take the stone in atari. The second diagram feels more favorable, but I think taking the atari is proper-er. But I was really 51%/49% on this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . 7 . 1 . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X 3 . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . . . 6 . 2 4 5 . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . 9 1 6 4 . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X 0 O X O X 5 . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . 7 O X 2 . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . . . . 8 3 . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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topazg
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm120 Move 120 - W: 2, B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I've swapped around the prisoner counts because they were confusing me (I think the other Malkovich games had the number as the number of prisoners that side has managed to capture, not had captured - that way it can be easily just viewed as "bonus points for that colour" I guess)

Strategy and Thoughts
Ok, let's get this plan on the road - I'm thinking I'll probably take "c" instead of "b" first on my last analysis if Black tries to connect underneath.
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daniel_the_smith
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by daniel_the_smith »

White, I really don't like what you've done with that corner...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Move 121 - W: 2, B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . 1 . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Score and Counting
So making up some borders, and counting the top left as equal to komi, white's central moyo is worth about 35 points.

My right side is worth 28 points. Bottom left is worth 11. White's bottom is worth 8. I'm not counting the top for either side since it's not really resolved yet. And counting the center black stones as mostly dead.

So given these boundaries, white wins by 4 points (give or take). That doesn't count getting raped in the end game, of course. So these boundaries are not something I want to aim for.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O w w . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . w . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . w . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . w . . . . . . b b |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , w . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . w X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . w w w . . . w . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X b b . . X O X O O X X X X . . b |
$$ | b b . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . w . . w . . b . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Strategy and Thoughts
So these are the points which I considered.

'a' aims to split the white stones on the left from the white stones on the right. Really a key weakness of this white shape.
'b' looks to solidly connect to the black stones on the top.

'c' destroys any white territory on the side. But I don't think that's an issue anyway. So probably not a necessary move at this point in the game.
'd' expands my territory while cramping any hope white has of making territory on the side. It does everything 'c' does and more.
'e' attempts to force white into a family feud. But if the group doesn't escape very well it just becomes heavy.

'f' tries to break in to white's moyo a bit, but it isn't doing so from a position that is all that strong to begin with.

Of these, 'a', 'd', and 'e' are the only ones I think merit further inspection.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . b . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . a . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . f . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . d . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X e . c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Tactics and Variations
Maybe something like this? Still good for black, I think.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . 1 5 O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . 2 . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Okay, but not as good as the one above (less big move).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O 3 1 4 . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X 2 . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My weakness in the corner prevents me from really capitalizing on this one.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . b . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . a . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . f . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . 4 . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O 8 O 5 O O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O 7 6 O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So 'a' seems like the best move.
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topazg
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by topazg »

So much to think about.... I'll be looking at this in detail later. The game feels close but there are some crazy decisions to make. Do I try to save the 2 stones and kill the whole top edge? Do I deliberately sacrifice them for the enlargement of my moyo? Do I tenuki entirely for those other big points on the board? Will have to do a score count for each I think.
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by unkx80 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . 8 . 6 . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . 5 4 1 2 . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . a . 3 X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is the game sequence. I agree with daniel_the_smith and feel that white unnecessarily gave away all the aji in the corner just to play :w7: in sente. I would recommend :b8: as shown over a; it is honte and makes the corner absolutely secure.

I say that :w5: must extend at :b6:. While prokofiev's proposal may be slightly better for black, I still prefer white to extend rather than counter atari.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If white's intention is to play :w1: in sente, white could have played it directly. It's pretty much sente anyway, because there isn't many big areas remaining on the board.
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm122 Move 122 - W: 2, B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Strategy and Thoughts
Nope, it's all yucky. Fortunately, there's lots of aji left, and I think if I can secure this middle with the followups I mentioned, the game's about even with plenty of endgame left. So, accepting I royally messed up the corner, I must make sure I don't mess it up further. If there's a good opportunity to do something with those stones, I will.
Tactics and Variations
Lots of potential fun:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm122 Move 122 - W: 2, B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . 6 4 7 8 . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . 3 X 9 O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , 5 . X . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O 1 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . a . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . b . . |
$$ | . X O O . c . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O d . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
129 at 130 instead works for Black, so I'll be playing 128 somewhere else, probably at "a", "b", or "c". If "d" is a threat to kill the corner, I'll probably play that then "a", otherwise I'll probably just play "a".
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm123 Move 123 - W: 2, B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O O 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Tactics and Variations
Two choices. The second one looks better, though.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . X 2 O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O O 3 1 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . X 3 O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O O 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . 5 4 . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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topazg
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 Move 124 - W: 2, B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . 1 X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Strategy and Thoughts
Getting my sente reduction / shape fixing over here first, before pushing over the top as planned:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 Move 124 - W: 2, B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . 4 2 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . 1 X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , 3 . X . O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O O X 6 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . 5 . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . 7 . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Malkovich #27 - topazg (1d) vs Numsgil (8k)

Post by unkx80 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm123 Move 123 - W: 2, B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X . . X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . O . , . . X 1 O X . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O . O . . . O O a . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X O O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X X X X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I recommend this :b1: over a. Basically aji-less.
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