#143 1986 vs Nathan

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Nathan
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm42 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


All these weak groups are stressin me out.... gotta stop doin that
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

well i gotta protect this cut because if i ignore my corner would be in danger
standing still means going backwards
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jts
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by jts »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O 1 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


You always have a choice between a solid connection and a hanging ("tiger's mouth") connection. Black would like to play this move anyway, so combining the hane and the connection into one move is very efficient. (The solid connection, of course, allows B to respond to S3 at S2, so there is a trade-off.)
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

jts,
jts wrote:The solid connection, of course, allows B to respond to S3 at S2, so there is a trade-off.
Here it's more important to make the solid connection :b43: in the game -- so B can block W's S3 hane.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

B should've been very happy to block with :b1: (instead of :b31: in the game), in sente --
if W tenuki, locally W is dead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :w2: tenuki
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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jts
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by jts »

EdLee wrote:jts,
jts wrote:The solid connection, of course, allows B to respond to S3 at S2, so there is a trade-off.
Here it's more important to make the solid connection :b43: in the game -- so B can block W's S3 hane.
I don't disagree. (That's what I meant by "respond to S3 at S2".) I just think it's a good example of the hanging connection doing something besides creating bad aji - move that serves two purposes simultaneously.
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Overall I'm not really sure what to do here... Here are some rambling thoughts

a- This move seems like a forcing move giving me sente and pushes out to the center while strenghtening his wall, however it makes a strange shape

b- adds some eyespace but ends in gote

c adds eyespace but if he plays t8 im forced to resond.. read again ... awful when he plays s6

d helps move the group out to the center solid shape but leaves concerns baout eyespace and where am i running too?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . c . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . X X b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a feels the best for now so I am going with it.
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


ok keeping my connection here with this nobi, if he goes for the cut its going to be a fight, and this nobi is strengthing a key stone in this fight if he so chooses to cut, this is going to be interesting, alot of reading :study:
standing still means going backwards
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emeraldemon
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by emeraldemon »

I think black has the stronger position here, but I don't like this last move. It gives white the hane at "a" and the cut at "b".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . a . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X b X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would have been happy to connect. I feel like it's giving white chances to cause trouble and maybe get out of a dangerous spot.
Nathan
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . 1 X . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Considered both j3 and o6.

j3 seems like a very big move in the game and i believe he will respond to it leaving me with sente. o6 is large as well but right now I feel j3 is more urgent.

edit.. I should probably have read here to make an informed decision... but thats why im still a 9 kyu
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 1 . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


that one stone is not my concern, i mean its only one stone, so this move is expanding my huge center and its massive even if i have to say so myself
standing still means going backwards
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X . 1 . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Very surprised he would tenuki in this situation. The bottom right seems very urgent.

I am going to try and make use of the aji created by the o3 stone

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O 3 X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X 2 1 4 O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O 1 X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X . O . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


oh well, i was expecting something else, i honestly thought he would jump into the center on the left side, or do something with the group thats floating on the right side, but the good thing about this move is it should be sente for me because he has to go for the cut and i get to play next, now for a good move :rambo:

so far i like:
i like K4, F15,& i like Q6
i like D9, D3 seems pro-ish, i like D10 too
or i might just play P4 to avoid the cut fight
naw i can win the cut fight
read read read was something i learned the last game
and im putting it into practice
:study:
standing still means going backwards
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jts
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by jts »

@1986

What are you reading out as happening locally if you take sente here? What do you read out as the likely sequences following from the other six moves you mentioned?
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emeraldemon
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by emeraldemon »

Now after white L3, the P4 aji is starting to look more and more tasty...
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