Trying to become pro

Josh Hatch · Post by **Josh Hatch** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:07 pm

Why don't you two play a game and settle your argument that way?

Also Leyleth, here's a few problems that are rated for 2k since you say play a 2d at 3 stones at your club:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c At a glance - 2k $$ ------------------- $$ . . . . X X X O . | $$ . X X O O O O X X | $$ . . . . O . O O X | $$ . . X . O O X X . | $$ . . . X X X . . . | $$ . . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c 1 minute - 2k $$ ------------------- $$ . . O . . . O . . | $$ . O X . X . X O . | $$ . O X . X . X O . | $$ . O O X X X O . . | $$ . . . O O O O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c 3 minutes - 2k $$ ------------------- $$ . . . . . O . O . | $$ . . X X O . X X X | $$ . . X O O O O O O | $$ . . X X X X X X . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

All three problems are black to play and from 初段合格の死活150題.

Sur · Post by **Sur** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:07 pm

daniel_the_smith wrote:Sur, I have to say, that comes across really nasty. You might consider toning that down if it's not what you intended.

Gah, ninja'd

You are right, I'm sorry. I actually didn't realize that. I toned it a little. It's just that I'm used to more respectable behaviour from go players where I play.

Cheers.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:19 pm

Josh Hatch wrote:Why don't you two play a game and settle your argument that way?

Those were nice problems, but I can't recommend this method of dispute resolution-- truth is not handed out prior to the debate in proportion to go skill...

Leyleth · Post by **Leyleth** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:34 pm

I admit not playing on IGS because of the time limits. I can't seem to find a way to get a "decent" one (KGS style). Concerning Tygem, I heard many good things about it. However, I'm unable to get my hand on a mac friendly version. As far as I know, it's only for PC, which is sad

Josh, these tsumegos are very nice indeed!

Problem 1: At a glance - 2k
First impression: Seems like O19's the answer...
Final answer: O19 works indeed
Time: less than 30 seconds

Problem 2: 1 minute - 2k
First impression: P19?
Final answer: P19
Time: less than 30 seconds

Problem 3: 3 minutes - 2k
First impression: ???
Final answer: I really don't get this one... Is it white to live or black to kill? lol... Guess that this one is a bad sign... I'll look at it after eating.

oren · Post by **oren** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:37 pm

This reminds me of ccatalyst and many others from godiscussions. It's great to see how circular these forums end up getting.

RBerenguel · Post by **RBerenguel** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:41 pm

Leyleth wrote:Problem 3: 3 minutes - 2k
First impression: ???
Final answer: I really don't get this one... Is it white to live or black to kill? lol... Guess that this one is a bad sign... I'll look at it after eating.

Black to kill. It's not that hard, but I won't say my answer (to avoid spoiling the fun/showing how I messed)

Sur · Post by **Sur** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:55 pm

Is this a japanese book? The problems seem little bit easy for 2k. There might be problem with ranks in different countries - http://senseis.xmp.net/?RankWorldwideComparison

amnal · Post by **amnal** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:59 pm

Sur wrote:If it's unacceptable for you to play handicap games against 2-dan, you are being very rude to strong players. It's considered to be a heroic achievement to reach shodan in two or three years in my country and very few actually did it so fast.

I can't help but wonder how many of those rapid-shodanners considered it unacceptable to take handicaps against 2-dans. Arrogance is one thing, but a strong drive to make every move better than the one before manifests the same way, and is probably an essential trait for someone intending to quickly move up through the ranks.

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:05 pm

I'm 2k KGS (actually borderline 1k now) and the last one probably took me around 2 minutes, although I wasn't timing or anything. The first two were more at-a-glance, I actually think prob. 2 is easier than prob. 1.

My solution:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 answer 1 $$ ------------------- $$ . . . 1 3 O 2 O . | $$ . . X X O . X X X | $$ . . X O O O O O O | $$ . . X X X X X X . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 answer 2 $$ ------------------- $$ . . . 1 2 O 3 O . | $$ . . X X O . X X X | $$ . . X O O O O O O | $$ . . X X X X X X . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 wrong, seki $$ ------------------- $$ . . . 3 4 O 2 O . | $$ . . X X O . X X X | $$ . . X O O O O O O | $$ . . X X X X X X 1 | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 white lives $$ ------------------- $$ . . . . . O 1 O . | $$ . . X X O 2 X X X | $$ . . X O O O O O O | $$ . . X X X X X X . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

My problem was in trying diagrams 3 and 4 before trying 1 and 2

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:08 pm

Just a random point: giving 3 stones and winning by 30 points or so sounds about right for 2d vs. 7k (give or take 3 stones on both sides :p). I'm not sure why that's unbelievable - dans (and stronger sdks) will start turtling usually once they are solidly ahead.

Josh Hatch · Post by **Josh Hatch** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:09 pm

Yeah, it is a Japanese book. It's from the Nihon Kiin Dan level series, it's the first life and death book. I posted the title in Japanese underneath the problems. I don't know how accurate that table really is though.

Here's a couple problems from Maeda Tsumego (book 2 前田中級詰碁) to balance it out. These are rated for 1-3k but they're Japanese ranks from the 60's, no times are given.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X O O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both of these are black to play as well.

Leyleth · Post by **Leyleth** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:11 pm

Oh! Now I see. O19 has just jumped to my face. Nice interesting one. Took me about 1 minute trying to find how to get a kill white from the inside and (finally) seeing a nice outside kill.

Numsgil · Post by **Numsgil** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:13 pm

To be fair, Layleth's got a 75% win rate as a 7 kyu with 30 some odd games this month. So I'd say at least 5 kyu is probable, just on statistical evidence. Possibly a stone or two stronger.

I applaud your progress. It took me a good 9 months to get to that point, and I consider my learning rate well above average. But maybe having some strong dan players to ~~destroy you~~ teach you has been helpful. Or maybe you're just naturally talented.

How many of the games are at reasonable time levels? I'm curious as blitz is definitely different from 25+ min main time. Reading is really fundamental to playing strength, and building my reading strength has been a slow and painful process involving literally thousands of go problems over the last two years. I'd argue that blitz games are more about fundamental shape and tesujis than actually verifying stone-by-stone if something works or not, and so I'd guess that it's probably possible to progress faster playing blitz games than slow games. Not that I'm undercutting your achievement either way.

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:13 pm

The bottom one seems considerably more tricky than the top.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:22 pm

illluck wrote:Just a random point: giving 3 stones and winning by 30 points or so sounds about right for 2d vs. 7k (give or take 3 stones on both sides :p). I'm not sure why that's unbelievable - dans (and stronger sdks) will start turtling usually once they are solidly ahead.

Honestly with three stones less than necessary the stronger player doesn't even have to try.

In that situation, the stronger player can:

A) Not try and still win.
B) Try to win by X points.
C) Play "kill everything".

I've come to the conclusion that not trying is not the way to improvement. So that leaves B and C. B is hard. C is fun.

Life In 19x19

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