132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 am
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
GD Posts: 0
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . 6 . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He obviously wants to start the ko, so it's probably not good for me :razz:

This seems quite safe, although his chances of living with his invasion are much bigger now. OTOH, I think I may win this even if he does live.
Offending ad removed
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , 7 X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmm. Seems too passive for black. Oh well. Let's break up the bottom~
be immersed
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 am
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
GD Posts: 0
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Offending ad removed
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


be immersed
User avatar
jts
Oza
Posts: 2662
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 pm
Rank: kgs 6k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 632 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by jts »

I hate it when I come back to a game after a while and forget who I was rooting for!
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 am
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
GD Posts: 0
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


With shorter time settings I would probably play a safer move (1 point to the right), but I haven't been able to read anything catastrophic into this. Besides, this is a learning experience, and I again want to see what I have missed this time.

According to my reading white will be able to live, but I will get sente and I can try to cut off the top of his group with L10
Offending ad removed
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
be immersed
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 am
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
GD Posts: 0
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Offending ad removed
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X 3 . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X 4 5 . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know what will happen.
be immersed
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 am
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
GD Posts: 0
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I read this through, but we'll soon see
Offending ad removed
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...
be immersed
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 am
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
GD Posts: 0
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Offending ad removed
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Loons »

@Kirby
If you don't mind, where are you seeing this ending?
*I mean, obviously it's slightly unclear, but I'm sure you have an idea

@tj
If you don't mind, where are you seeing this ending?
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Laman »

both players raise bets, which is exciting for spectators, but i doubt it is advantegous for both of them. specifically, if white dies, he loses anyway, so he wants to make the fight bigger, to possibly gain more and to get bigger potential of living. however, if black himself said he expected white to live, why does he play to kill by all means?

still, killing is a tempting option and i wish black all luck in the world to succeed
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Post by Loons »

@Laman
As someone else who plays perhaps-mistakes similar to :b22: , I think the justification is that it increases white's distance from settling, which isn't necessarily going for the kill.

Say, if we live like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . B . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . 0 9 7 3 1 O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . 8 4 5 2 X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

It's still something of a headache for white.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Post Reply