Hi everyone,
It's my first post on this forum.
Yesterday I ran into a strange answer to a basic move and didn't know how to react. In the end I felt that I missed an opportunity.
3 isn't Joseki, I answered at a but maybe should I have played at b ? An other solution ?
Thank you for your answers.
PS: I'm about 17k so I'm not confident with Joseki, I don't know how to study them (and I don't think I should study them at my level, should I ?).
Strange reply to 3-4 point low approach
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Strange reply to 3-4 point low approach
Welcome to the forums.
The 'It is not joseki, therefore I do not know how to handle it' mindset can get you into trouble when your opponent plays non-book moves.
You will do better trying to understand joseki. In this particular instance, upon seeing
, I would ask myself what is the meaning of each stone played. 
is an attempt to take territory, biased more toward the side than the top. 
is an attempt to share the corner and maybe have something on the top side. ( You knew this already, right? 
)
is a single-minded attempt to secure the corner. It is successful. So, what is left? The sides, of course, and the center. So, you play 
I'd play 4 with no problems if I had the favorable ladder going southeast like this:
I might play more cautiously otherwise, like this:
I'd have to read out the continuations to say for sure.
BTW, this is all assuming that something should be played in the corner. If there is an open corner elsewhere, I'd regard as so passive that I could tenuki.
The 'It is not joseki, therefore I do not know how to handle it' mindset can get you into trouble when your opponent plays non-book moves.
You will do better trying to understand joseki. In this particular instance, upon seeing
, I would ask myself what is the meaning of each stone played. is an attempt to take territory, biased more toward the side than the top. is an attempt to share the corner and maybe have something on the top side. ( You knew this already, right? ) is a single-minded attempt to secure the corner. It is successful. So, what is left? The sides, of course, and the center. So, you play I'd play 4 with no problems if I had the favorable ladder going southeast like this:
I might play more cautiously otherwise, like this:
I'd have to read out the continuations to say for sure.
BTW, this is all assuming that something should be played in the corner. If there is an open corner elsewhere, I'd regard
as so passive that I could tenuki.Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Bill Spight
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Re: Strange reply to 3-4 point low approach
Oripy wrote:Hi everyone,
It's my first post on this forum.
Yesterday I ran into a strange answer to a basic move and didn't know how to react. In the end I felt that I missed an opportunity.
3 isn't Joseki, I answered at a but maybe should I have played at b ? An other solution ?
Thank you for your answers.
PS: I'm about 17k so I'm not confident with Joseki, I don't know how to study them (and I don't think I should study them at my level, should I ?).
To answer your last question first, I would not worry about joseki until you are 5 kyu, or even dan level. (OC, you will learn joseki, but just picking them up is fine.
)Your instinct to play at "a" is good.
"b" is usually terrible. It strengthens White and gains Black next to nothing, as a rule. As others have pointed out, you have gotten a passive response, so you can play somewhere else. Many joseki errors punish themselves.
Where to play depends on the rest of the board, but I might try something like this, if I continued in this region.
Since
got a passive response, I am willing to throw it away. No need to play close to it.The one space jump is also an interesting idea.
As is your block.
could also extend to "a".I would be wary of the press,
. After 
does not look bad. It secures the corner while restricting the chances of and 
to make eye shape.The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Uberdude
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Re: Strange reply to 3-4 point low approach
Although this move is rather strange and slow on an empty board (thought it wouldn't surprise me it Kitani played it!), it can be good if there's something interesting going on. For example in the following mini-chinese opening:
The common-sense move (and indeed the first one played in GoGoD) for black is to kick to prevent white getting eyes in the corner (if white extends he is heavy and is attacked severely) but then white can make fairly decent shape with the 2nd line hane and atari:
So pros have also tried the footsweep. This means white doesn't get those useful forcing moves on the corner as above, but instead does have a big weakness at a to aim at. As black hasn't taken a liberty from the white stone it is easier for white to tenuki, for example to run away lightly to b. A nice tactic for white is to play hane at d after b-c which might seem dangerous as it allows black to cut at e, but white then plays at a and it is hard for black to stop white getting something. This variation has been researched recently (since 2008) by pros and is covered in Kim Sung Rae's 21st Century Openings Volume 3.
The common-sense move (and indeed the first one played in GoGoD) for black is to kick to prevent white getting eyes in the corner (if white extends he is heavy and is attacked severely) but then white can make fairly decent shape with the 2nd line hane and atari:
So pros have also tried the footsweep. This means white doesn't get those useful forcing moves on the corner as above, but instead does have a big weakness at a to aim at. As black hasn't taken a liberty from the white stone it is easier for white to tenuki, for example to run away lightly to b. A nice tactic for white is to play hane at d after b-c which might seem dangerous as it allows black to cut at e, but white then plays at a and it is hard for black to stop white getting something. This variation has been researched recently (since 2008) by pros and is covered in Kim Sung Rae's 21st Century Openings Volume 3.