Capture the stones, or have mercy?

SoDesuNe · Post by **SoDesuNe** » Sat May 22, 2010 11:10 am

Araban wrote:If it were a club game or free online game, I'd probably show mercy.
If it's a ranked online game or a tournament game then definitely not.

Yeah, same here. Winning by accidents is just not satisfying =D

mohsart · Post by **mohsart** » Sat May 22, 2010 11:45 am

In a casual even game (and if it's interesting) I may let him "undo" and we could finish the game as if he hadn't made the mistake. The game is then morally won already and the rest is just a what-if kind of review.
In a handicap game against a weaker player, if it crushes my opponent I'd point out his mistake "Now, if you play there, I can capture here, see?" and let him undo.
In a serious game I'd capture, there are no options; I will also not make a undo in a serious game, even if my opponent would let me/ask me to.

/Mats

KGS 4 kyu · Post by **fwiffo** » Sat May 22, 2010 12:03 pm

If it was a tournament, I'd take it, unless I already had a for-sure win without the capture. In a casual game I might point it out. I've done that before, but the game was already won, and we were rushing through the last of the endgame so we could count and review.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Sat May 22, 2010 1:38 pm

Mistakes count. Mine did, that's why I am behind.

If it was a casual game at the club, with someone I know, I would give a Mulligan. Although I would not accept one myself - never have, never will.

But online or in a tournament .. mistakes count.

Suji · Post by **Suji** » Sat May 22, 2010 2:19 pm

topazg wrote:Yes, if it is the biggest move, irregardless of it being about winning. Go for me is about always trying to find the best move, not win - if that's capturing, I will.

Agreed.

Nikolas73 · Post by **Nikolas73** » Sat May 22, 2010 2:24 pm

I never ask for an undo (unless it is a misclick, but even then I will sometimes decide the misclicked move is more interesting and I go with that). This thread reminds me of a recent game I played on KGS...

Both sides made a lot of mistakes, but at the end Black (me) was able to play A11 (which White's previous move should have been at, I think) and save a huge group which should have died. White immediately requested an undo. I hesitated for about 30 seconds before deciding the game was unimportant, and I wanted to keep on playing a little since it was my last game for that night. I was about to grant the undo request when my opponent resigned.

Usually I will only "have mercy" if I have a clear lead and the capture will not affect the result of the game; it is more fun that way.

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Sat May 22, 2010 9:31 pm

In a tournament game, I do not believe undos CAN be given. In any case, I do not think I would give it. I just don't think it's the spirit of this game to be treating a tournament casually as this should be your best/top game.

Usually if an undo is requested in a normal KGS game, I grant it for misclick that seems relatively obvious. Usually, if it is a misclick, the undo request is very quick. I do not enjoy giving undos for obvious reading errors though, as I don't expect it to be given to me if I requested it(I wouldn't anyways).

In person/ in a club environment, I honestly don't see that many asking for an "undo". In all honesty, I've never seen someone asking to take back a move in person. Most people just resign and then start a new game

.

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Sun May 23, 2010 3:55 am

ketchup wrote:In a tournament game, I do not believe undos CAN be given. In any case, I do not think I would give it. I just don't think it's the spirit of this game to be treating a tournament casually as this should be your best/top game.

The rules don't cover it, and you're not supposed to, since it may favor an opponent, but I've seen people give undos in tournament games. Don't forget that usually only the result of the match gets reported to the TDs

SolarBear · Post by **SolarBear** » Sun May 23, 2010 10:24 am

Unless it was a slow, casual game with a close friend on a saturday afternoon with a nice, cold beer, I'd take the stones and I would expect my opponents to do the same. I don't learn much from having my mistakes pointed out to me, but I do learn from having them shown to me in a quick and merciless way.

Alakazam · Post by **Alakazam** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:07 am

In the past, I always took mercy. Now, I've realized that taking the stones probably makes more sense. We all make mistakes in the game, and we all make blunders now and then. Mistakes and blunders are no different! WHy? Mistakes are a part of our skill, and blunders are also a part of our skilL. Let me rephrase - They are a part of our strength as a Go player. Anything that affects the result of the game is part of playing strength. That means good eyes, or good health, mental stamina, concentration and others are all part of skill. Go is not all on the board. If your opponent played a Monkey jump reduction, then realized he loses Sente and should play Kosumi or Keima instead, do you let him take back? How about if he plays a 1-point Gote when there is still a 3 point Gote left? Id this so different from putting himself in Atari? YOu can argue that one is a natural art of his skill, and the other was an accident, but the reason he blundered must have been because og low mental stamina, or low concentration on the game. Even if it was because his vision is not so good, it is a part of his skill, and he or she must learn that the hard way. I did, many others did. I simply learned to accept it when I realized I'm not the only one who makes these mistakes. With that in mind, I was easily able to start embracing it as a part of my strength, or rather, my weakness.

It really depends on the circumstances. If it is a rating or tournament game, the above applies, but if it's a friendly free game, especially an in-person one, I will let them undo most of the time.
Despite my strong belief in what was first posted by Magicwand, I find myself too much of a softy to deny such an undo even in a tournament >< I contradict myself quite powerfully.

Hagios · Post by **Hagios** » Sun May 23, 2010 1:04 pm

If it's a good friend, yes. I only play very casual games against friends anyway. If it's a teaching game, then yes. Capturing the stones doesn't cement any lessons, any more than pointing out the group would.

99% of cases, I take the stones.

MountainGo · Post by **MountainGo** » Sun May 23, 2010 1:33 pm

On a related note, this is another reason why beginners should consider playing on smaller boards. When you make a dumb mistake and suddenly lose the game, it's a lot easier to just clear away the stones and have another go.

I do think it is a weakness of the game of go (OMG am I saying something negative about go? Cover your children's ears!) that a momentary blunder can suddenly erase everything you've been building up. Fortunately, once you reach a certain level (say, SDK), this is essentially no longer a factor.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sun May 23, 2010 2:30 pm

MountainGo wrote:...a momentary blunder can suddenly erase everything you've been building up. Fortunately, once you reach a certain level (say, SDK), this is essentially no longer a factor.

I don't think I agree with this. I think that momentary blunders that mess up everything you've been building up exist at dan levels, too.

kokomi · Post by **kokomi** » Sun May 23, 2010 8:16 pm

Magicwand wrote:i take the stone.
if he feels bad and not play me anymore i dont play him anymore.
when i make mistake i never take back even it means i lose the game.
i think it should be same for all go player.

agree.

in teaching game, i'll offer an undo.

kokomi · Post by **kokomi** » Sun May 23, 2010 8:19 pm

Araban wrote:If it were a club game or free online game, I'd probably show mercy.
If it's a ranked online game or a tournament game then definitely not.

oh, yes, i think i agree this one. when i saw the question, i thought about kgs only...

Life In 19x19

Capture the stones, or have mercy?

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