Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet

gogameguru · Post by **gogameguru** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:13 pm

At this point (move 122) black can't be killed. White played A for 122 in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc White plays to kill $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . X O . . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . O X X O X X O O . . . O . X O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . X O X . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . O . . . O . . O O O O O O O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O X O X X X X X X . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . X X X . X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O 8 . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . 3 O 4 . . . O . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O X 1 2 6 5 . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . 7 X O O . . O . X X X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O X . . . . O O X O . | $$ | . . . O X a O . O O . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

continued...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 White goes all out, but now 'a' and 'b' are miai for black. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . X O . . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . O X X O X X O O . . . O . X O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . X O X . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . O . . . O . . O O O O O O O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O X O X X X X X X . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . X X X . X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 1 O O X . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X O 2 . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X 3 . . O . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X X O 5 7 . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . X 4 6 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . O X O O c . O . X X X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X W X b . . . O O X O . | $$ | . . . O X a O 8 W W . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

White's 'a' (122 in the game) was a subtle move. After that this sequence is broken because white can just answer 'b' with 'c' and connect the marked stones under without problems. It's quite a good move because it takes quite a lot of profit in sente at this stage in the game.

I don't know what Tromp read out here and why he didn't reinforce this group. It would've been a good idea to reinforce earlier too, but black could've also played the invasion in the bottom left better and not ended up with a weak group here.

badukJr · Post by **badukJr** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:18 pm

In game 3 Tromp resigned in 65 moves.

Zen leads 2-1.

Pippen · Post by **Pippen** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:21 pm

Here we have game 3 which Tromp resigned. He did again play nirensei as White. I agree with him till his move 28, but move 30 at R11 was a mistake for me (he should have played Q10). It led to black building up naturally a big center moyo that had too much influence in comparison with what White got with R11 and follow up moves. What do u think? IMO if you play nirensei you need to play fast and make sure you don't get behind too much in moyos and influence otherwise you will stand the difficult task to go against superior influence while at the same time your corners can be invaded, so that you can become quickly empty handed. Basically with nirensei you are saying: I want to spread out my stones and don't care for territory rather for influence resp. destroying influence of my opponent. Tromp never does that. He constantly ends up in Fuseki with Zen having superior influence while he has just very little territory (because of the 4-4 cornerstones) and inferior influence. Therefore he's forced to take risks Zen can take advantage of.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:39 am

I have played around with some variations at move 122 in game 2.

SpongeBob · Post by **SpongeBob** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:21 pm

badukJr wrote:In game 3 Tromp resigned in 65 moves.

Zen leads 2-1.

End of humanity is near ... the Cylons are taking over!!

imabuddha · Post by **imabuddha** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:32 pm

SpongeBob wrote: End of humanity is near ... the Cylons are taking over!!

Fine by me, as long as I can have a #8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_Eig ... Galactica)

badukJr · Post by **badukJr** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:34 pm

Magicwand wrote:i think i can say for sure that for next 20 years...computer will not beat me.
computer go is improving rapidly but...it gets harder to improve one stone at this point.

Well, one just beat a EGF 3d 3-1 with long time controls..

Are you offering up another bet?

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:38 pm

Zen just won 3-1

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:47 pm

Wow, that was what I voted for in the poll, so I guess I'm happy?

quantumf · Post by **quantumf** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:06 pm

daniel_the_smith wrote:Wow, that was what I voted for in the poll, so I guess I'm happy?

Yeah, me too...hooray?

I was struck by how much poorer Tromp played in the last few games compared to how well he played in the first one. I can only assume that he was actually based in Europe, and having to play games that started at 2am. Certainly I wouldn't be able to manage that more than once.

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:28 pm

I am not really knowledgeable in zen's records, but from what I've seen human players often do much better the first few games for some reason (e.g. start off winning after giving 2 stones and then losing to zen so much that he drops from 7d to 5d and win about 50% even games).

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:37 am

quantumf wrote:... I can only assume that he was actually based in Europe, and having to play games that started at 2am. Certainly I wouldn't be able to manage that more than once.

I seem to recall a comment among the kibbitzers that he was curently in New York.

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:26 am

I remember the same, Joaz.

yoyoma · Post by **yoyoma** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:26 am

Mr. Tromp, I have some money I would like to invest for 14 years. Can you be my adviser?

Back in 1997 he correctly predicted to the year when computers would overtake him!

palapiku · Post by **palapiku** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:03 am

Interesting that most people voted 3-1. I did too. Way to go, us

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