Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

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tj86430
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by tj86430 »

There was recently discussion of this joseki and why white can't cut. Now the question is: how does the donut board affect the situation? Black D16 group is suddenly quite close to the inner edge.
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


I liked this last time, so I guess I still do. It takes advantage of the special properties of this inside corner :) Black is sealed off from the whole left side, which helps compensate for his corner, which isn't exactly solid territory but it's not exactly easy to invade, either. I'm also threatening to leak in to his side by playing like below (the interior corner really does have some interesting possibilities).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . 6 7 . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
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perceval
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by perceval »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


looks weird but as sais i want to avoid playing f18.
here is it enough to make W hane hamless:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O 4 - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


on the other hand my hane was not possible becasue of the weird corner

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O 1 - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


taking that corner would have been natural but i was annoyed by the bad shape: (this is reinforce by the inner corner : this grop is in fact a first line group)


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X 4 . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


That feels like an awkward move for black. :/

:w28: finishes up the base for my stones, and takes at least half of the whole side as mine.

I'd say the game is still pretty even, though. Well, maybe I'm up for a bit. I don't know if I'd want to play black on this board given the choice. But if you told me the game was even right now I'm not sure I'd argue.
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by perceval »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


seems to be the biggest remaining area; I'll try to live here while keeping the san san invasion to the right feasible (the board is bigger here so it will be easier)
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Approaching his stone on either side is miai so I won't do either just yet.

For my move, I figure 4-4 stones like 5 point extensions. This is also a 5 point extension from black's top corner. So that's why it's here and not one or two points closer to black. It's high because I think I have better prospects of making territory along the top ceiling vs. the bottom.
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by perceval »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


lets grab some points what will he do with the thickness ? i think my bottom splitting stone is still safe
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . X . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . X . . . . . . O O 7 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 2 1 X 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Not for you:
Seems okay for either side. Black sort of needs to deal with his bottom black stone now, though, because this would be great for me. A pincer and a 5 point extension from the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 1 . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
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perceval
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by perceval »

trigger ...accepted

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . X . . . . . . O O 7 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 2 1 X 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


then:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm3\43 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 1 . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]

almost played the 3 space extension then decide for the 2 space. i dont think he can pressure much my group this way
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Numsgil
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


This is interesting. More peculiarity from the inner corner. I can protect the whole right side fairly easily if I'm willing to give black the bottom.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 7 5 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , 6 1 . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . 8 . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Trying to block the normal way let's him get into the side. But I get a lot of corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ | . . . . 6 . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
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perceval
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by perceval »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . O . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


i wish i had a super good analysis to back that one up but the bottom line is i am curious to see if it can live here on this strange board; if it doesand the 2 stones on the bottom don t die either i ll be ahead i think; i expect something like (:w48: could be elsewhere but i just hope to use the aji at D4 somehow -- hope go at its craziest but I can't read a thing these days)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . O . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


and i have no idea where this leads
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Numsgil
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . O . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


He's going to find it hard to build a base. If he extends from this stone, I pincer. If he tries to build a base I'll undercut it. If he leaves it as a forcing exchange I'm fine with that.
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perceval
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by perceval »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 0 . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . O . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . O . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Looking at it now, I think he has miai for making a base on either the top or bottom edge.. But I'll keep pressuring him. This secures some extra territory and threatens to scoop out the base along the external edge.
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board

Post by Celebrir »

What happens with this move ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 W+7.5 (komi +prisoners)
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . - - - - - - - - - . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . - - - - - - - - - . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . , . O . X . . X . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
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