Ortho
Lives with ko
Posts: 133 Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:30 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 4kyuLocation: UKHas thanked: 162 times Been thanked: 24 times
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by Ortho Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:02 am
Ortho
Lives with ko
Posts: 133 Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:30 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 4kyuLocation: UKHas thanked: 162 times Been thanked: 24 times
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by Ortho Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:47 am
$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
So I don't really like the cutting points I have there after:
$$Bcm9 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm9 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0But leaving that aside I don't think this is bad at all. I'm making territory. W has a strong shape there in the center but it's not an eye and it has no base. It is out into the center but I think on balance B is better here. I have at least most of the corner and even if my 2 stones there come under pressure I have a threat to disconnect W's top side stone from the rest and then they are floating.
I feel like I made a mistake in my analysis of the other line where I play R13 and W plays R15--it's not "about the same" at all. W gets the corner there. And I can't see any other random move that might be good--I have to defend these stones somehow. I see that W can do a few things like playing at P14 or Q13 but they don't look scarier to me than this line. I'm not crazy about the cutting points but I will live with that.
Celebrir
Lives in gote
Posts: 353 Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:22 amRank: German 1kGD Posts: 0KGS: 1.DanOGS: 4kUniversal go server handle: CelebrirHas thanked: 36 times Been thanked: 14 times
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by Celebrir Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:54 am
Just fo reference after the game, the "super-basic joseki" is this
$$Wcm1 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0But I don't think this is good for B here because it destroys a part of the san-ren-sei. Maybe
should have been at 'a' ?
Last edited by
Celebrir on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348 Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 amRank: FGA 7k GoR 1297GD Posts: 0Location: FinlandHas thanked: 49 times Been thanked: 129 times
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by tj86430 Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:54 am
$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
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Ortho
Lives with ko
Posts: 133 Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:30 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 4kyuLocation: UKHas thanked: 162 times Been thanked: 24 times
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by Ortho Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:05 am
$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348 Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 amRank: FGA 7k GoR 1297GD Posts: 0Location: FinlandHas thanked: 49 times Been thanked: 129 times
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by tj86430 Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:25 am
$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
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Uberdude
Judan
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by Uberdude Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:30 am
Celebrir wrote: Just fo reference after the game, the "super-basic joseki" is this
$$Wcm1 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Captures: White: 0 Black: 0But I don't think this is good for B here because it destroys a part of the san-ren-sei. Maybe
should have been at 'a' ?
That is a basic joseki, but is indeed bad for black as white gets a strong group at o17 making k16 looks bad. I think the game result is even worse though as white now has a strong group in black's moyo. Black's last move could have been p16 (white can't block or black brings out the ladder stone) to munch o17 and make 4th line territory on the top linking up to k16. That's probably more important than connecting to r12 pincer.
But the real problem was earlier. White's double approach at o17 is an overplay, which black can punish by playing r17. White can cover black, but then black cuts and white has 2 weak groups, whilst black is alive in the corner.
Last edited by
Uberdude on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ortho
Lives with ko
Posts: 133 Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:30 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 4kyuLocation: UKHas thanked: 162 times Been thanked: 24 times
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by Ortho Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:53 am
$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348 Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 amRank: FGA 7k GoR 1297GD Posts: 0Location: FinlandHas thanked: 49 times Been thanked: 129 times
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by tj86430 Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:25 am
I'm terribly sorry, I was quite busy for a while, during which I totally forgot about this.
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Ortho
Lives with ko
Posts: 133 Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:30 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 4kyuLocation: UKHas thanked: 162 times Been thanked: 24 times
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by Ortho Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:46 am
No worries.
tj86430
Gosei
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by tj86430 Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:38 pm
$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
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Ortho
Lives with ko
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by Ortho Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:10 pm
What I'm thinking about.
1. Can I tenuki here? My group is stable so I think yes. However, I am not sure whether I should take the corner. Am inclined to think no. BLack can't get in there now and I can respond if I need to later. I think playing a move in the corner is slow. But whenever I come down on one side of this issue or the other I am always wrong.
2. Even if I can tenuki, his group has no base on the side. So should I chase it? Like maybe M17 or something builds my top and I think he has to settle himself somehow.
3. If I should tenuki, which corner should I approach? Low approach to the LR corner seems to coordinate with my other stones, but not perfectly. Maybe low approach and then just back off to the star point? That seems to close to the side group. Maybe slide and then play the small knight to the 4th line? That leaves a gap but I am settled on both sides. Or maybe approach the 3-3 on the other side.
Ortho
Lives with ko
Posts: 133 Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:30 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 4kyuLocation: UKHas thanked: 162 times Been thanked: 24 times
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by Ortho Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:25 am
$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
So, I don't really know what to do here.
tj86430
Gosei
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by tj86430 Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:51 am
$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
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Ortho
Lives with ko
Posts: 133 Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:30 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 4kyuLocation: UKHas thanked: 162 times Been thanked: 24 times
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by Ortho Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:01 am
$$Bcm21 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
should have been at 'a' ?