Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan

[Redbeard]

FYI-
For those who have questions about who pays for the Seattle Go Center I can state the following.

The Seattle Go Center building is a two story structure. The lower floor is leased to a commercial tenant and the upper floor is used for the Go Center itself. The SGC manages the building as a whole and is responsible for all property taxes and maintenance fees. The income from the commercial tenant and SGC membership fees are used for this purpose and for the day to day expenses of keeping the SGC open.

To my knowledge, the SGC has not asked for or required funds from the Nihon Ki-in for operation expenses or building maintenance. Outside of an initial loan given to to the SGC to purchase equipment when the club opened, which may have been part of the Iwamoto trust, the Nihon Ki-in has had no financial input on The Seattle Go Center.

[Javaness2]

My understanding is that there are legally binding contracts that would be violated by the Nihon Ki-in selling the SGC building outright and this lawsuit is meant to ensure that those contracts are fulfilled.

This is what I understood to be the basis of the case. You can make arguments such as "The Nihon Kiin are nice honourable important people, and do not deserved to be sued", and most of us will nod there. You can say "Iwamoto's trust fund should not be ravaged." many of us will nod there.

My first thought was, "have Seattle gone nuts", but I find that hard to believe, I find it hard to believe the Kiin have gone bonkers either. What is going on here?

I find the following paragraph very interesting
"The Nihon Ki-in has not given any reason for its decision to revive the New York Go Center at the expense of Seattle’s, either publicly or to Seattle Go Center Directors or to the American Go Association Board, which has requested one" it means to me, at least, that the money is being used to set up a new Go center in New York - something that one could imagine would be in keeping with any legal arrangements around some sort of trust fund.

However, didn't Mrs Kobayashi come to the NY Go Centre, tell them they had failed, and then close it...?

Then I read this passage "During a January 23, 2012 Seattle Go Center board meeting which Executive Director Kobayashi personally attended, Kobayashi told the Seattle Go Center directors that the Seattle Go Center building had been purchased and remodeled with unrestricted funds provided by the Nihon Ki-in. We believe that statement was false."

This is quite mysterious indeed.
From my understanding of the culture, it must be the last thing the Kiin expected
I must take a look at Executive Director Kobayashi's blog to see if there are any clues there.

Oh by the way, new Nihon Kiin summer school for westerners was just advertised.

[Javaness2]

Can anyone provide a decent translation of this page - http://blog.goo.ne.jp/33612534201/e/708 ... 85811ae991

Checking out her blog, this one looks relevant

Code: Select all

Tokyo Yomiuri Shimbun evening edition May 11, 1987;

Kaoru Iwamoto Go oldest community in Japan. Uchitsuzuke the game of Go was an era hid two generations Taisho, Showa, over 70 years. Sprinkle the stone from the board to hit, "Go throw beans" is attached to the Kifu nickname. Sometimes at the beginning of the Showa withdrew the world go, who emigrated to Brazil. Mr. Iwamoto was heard 85-year-old now, have a passion to promote overseas investment of up to private property.
◇
- First, let's hear from or talk about the house was donated 530 million yen worth of land to the Nihon Ki.
Because it is my desire that, to spread abroad the Go, seeks to use for that.

- Is there a good way to spread effectively?
In my experience was spread Kaigai several times, in the first place, to establish a Center Go to the city promising, secondly, to its center, two years or one year, teaching to stay long-term players young If the population will increase dramatically go. There are also some such conclusion in talks with foreign people. Is not asked to raise funds to build the center in that particular moment. For now the San Francisco Sao Paulo North America, South America is a candidate site.

- Is not that what she had said, Do I have gone into the private property ... why.
There is no pride as a man. I four years ago, as the Board of Directors of Nihon Ki is made you decide to build a center go to Sao Paulo. I have been told can not be if there is no assistance in various fields, and "Wait a little more because building a hall now go to China" is not raised to ask the president Yoshihiro Inayama Nihon Ki. How China is not completed last summer, now is the appreciation of the yen, difficult to collect donations Even. Also director Yoshiaki Iro-bu is said "Why do not we a little Miokuro" ....

- What is private property of the gun up.
After the decision by the Board, Nde I have a promise to build a center go I go out in São Paulo, Brazil. To quit as a man does not go. In Sao Paulo, the local branch of the Japanese construction company, then I have to treat more than 500 square meters of land already, the building can be done if more than 100 million yen after ten thousand 2,3000. I, I thought I was massaging and not only about 100 million yen I own land and building. Had to say I was nervous because it massaged 500 000 000 and get an expert to evaluate it. Is the gate like a good example of how naive that I have Gouchi. I sold 's take on the personal tax. Donated to the Nihon Ki real estate there, it 's because it can be used more effectively in the hands of Nihon Ki can do the foundation.

- Real estate has been donated, do not you home?
Accommodation of foreigners, I was using, such as Saron Go to your study group with his disciples, amateur. I do about 15 minutes walk from Ebisu Station electric JR. I for dissemination abroad, but has been living in a foreign country several times, during which time I got home bear in often. However, most of us just to stay over and take care of the meal does not get them. Western people, but will tell me, protect your privacy, personal privacy is a very well kept and certainly it is. And Japan's, because you try to treat the same family, if a day or two anyway, home will be destroyed when long-lasting. I thought this was and is, we have to design the facility accommodate a foreigner there. When keenly felt during the seven years from 1961, turned the United States and Europe over more than a year and a half.

- So soon after returning home?
Ieie if there is no money. I bought 42 years at 10 million yen 145 square meters of land, was a four-story building can be reinforced, of approximately 300 square meters is a summer 44 years. It took about 17 million yen. Floor accommodation is four, young people without money, was raised to stay over for free. You still single disciple in Kono (Yukio stage four), I Sumikon me as a person in management. Most just pass the keys of the room What you have to Kono. I do not mind Ikko is not attempted to come back in time.

- If there are no such facilities, did not you? Be troubled foreigner coming to Japan we now?
Nearly 20 years since the completion, would have played another role. It also has changed era. Foreigners come to study in Japan is so neat preparation of accommodation now. (Excitation stage nine) you start a song, you're doing fine and everyone to a crowd of people his disciples. Everyone who is also the support of flax, who has acknowledged my passion to spread overseas. (Reporter justice Fujii)

Kaoru Iwamoto (Kaoru Iwamoto) Born in 1902 in Shimane Prefecture. Input stage of the stage six years will be to apprentice six years Heijiro Hirose Taisho 2. Had immigrated to Brazil in 1929 withdrew from the Nihon Ki stage four times, returning to give up the business six years, reversion to the players. Bathe the baptism of the atomic bomb in the second game handicap office holder of the Honinbo title challenge against the third stage in the town Futsukaichi Hiroshima 20 years. The fourth stage the third stage holder of the Honinbo title 21 years, 22 years. Nine stage 42 years, awarded Medal with Purple Ribbon. Isao Zuihosho awarded three years, etc. 48. Retirement 58 years, during which time the Nihon Ki serve President, the Vice President.

http://igo.web.infoseek.co.jp/cgi-bin/dailyigo2/news.cgi?mode=past&no=55 

[balistic]

When i hear the Seattle Go Center complaining about not hearing from the Nihon Ki-in and feeling they are owed an explaination i call them hypocrits.

The SGC has publicly started a war stating the Nihon Ki-in breached contract and are fraudulent. Inciting a whole public smear campaign. Yet they are not providing the public with the information on what they have specifically done wrong, nor provided anything to back it up. If they dont feel we need to know this kind of information, then they shouldnt have brought the matter up publicly.

The Nihon Ki-in is the one caught up in this with a reputation to diminish.

[EdLee]

hyperpape,

I think this is a case where it really does all come down to the law. ...
I only hope the SGC isn't being rash and pressing a dubious case, but if the law favors them,
they shouldn't sit back and think "gosh, we were so lucky, shame it's over".

No, hyperpape. That's where we disagree. It does not necessarily all come down to the law.
Of course, everybody hopes the SGC isn't being rash and pressing a frivolous case,
but even if the law favors them and it's non-frivolous, it does not necessarily follow they have to sue.
Yes, as Redbeard and others have stated, we all hope the SGC has already studied all other variations.
And as he and balistic pointed out, we don't have all the details. We're only kibbitzers (daal). So, that's that.

(gowan, I also realized about "NHK"... the Nihon Kiin has no official acronym; it's just for the sake of this thread. Maybe "NhK"? )

[hyperpape]

The SGC has publicly started a war stating the Nihon Ki-in breached contract and are fraudulent.

What do you call selling the building that the center relies upon, a pleasant Christmas card?

[hyperpape]

Ed, I definitely overstated in one way: whether or not it makes sense to sue today depends on whether the Ki-in has given any indication of when it plans to sell. If the sale is not imminent, then discussion is better.

One point I'll throw out there while I'm thinking about it: we shouldn't confuse the situation of the SGC with the situation of go in the US. As a whole, we have benefited a great deal from the support of the Ki-in, and for that reason it may seem ungrateful to sue them over something like this. But the go players of Seattle are losing quite a bit more, and (again depending on the facts) may feel that they are not being ungrateful to a benefactor, since that supposed benefactor is taking what was given to them by Iwamoto.

[balistic]

The SGC has publicly started a war stating the Nihon Ki-in breached contract and are fraudulent.

What do you call selling the building that the center relies upon, a pleasant Christmas card?

That's right, focus on the card instead of the present that lasted 16 years.

I dont think there is anything new to add to this saga until we get some disclosure from the accusing party.

[badukJr]

I'm sure SGC members will be popular when all the other go centers have to close as the Kiin diverts funding to a legal case...

[shapenaji]

That's right, focus on the card instead of the present that lasted 16 years.

I dont think there is anything new to add to this saga until we get some disclosure from the accusing party.

Destroying an established cultural center to scrounge money to divert to a center that was less successful and has already closed is a bad idea.

Destroying Iwamoto-sensei's legacy in doing so is a worse one. I'm not sure where your wellspring of faith in the good intentions of the Nihon Kiin comes from, but I think it's obscuring your objectivity.

[shapenaji]

I'm sure SGC members will be popular when all the other go centers have to close as the Kiin diverts funding to a legal case...

I highly doubt this is the kind of case that stretches over years and exhausts that kind of funding.

[tchan001]

Digging around google brought about these interesting links
http://www.lbloom.net/zzky.html
2003 King County Assessor List of 4,856 property owners Y to Yzaguirre and the assessed value of their property
[Find "Seattle Go Center" shows the owner listed as YOSHIDA TAKAO] so as of 2003 the owner listed with the government is Takao Yoshida.

Digging for Takao Yoshida bought a link to a page which leads to a dead page
http://pipl.com/directory/name/Katsuhisa/Hikojiro/
[Find "Takao Yoshida"] Takao Yoshida is listed as Nihon-Kiin Representative

Conclusion is that as of 2003, The Nihon-Kiin owns the building with Takao Yoshida as it's representative.

Not sure what the current situation is though.

[shapenaji]

Digging around google brought about these interesting links
http://www.lbloom.net/zzky.html
2003 King County Assessor List of 4,856 property owners Y to Yzaguirre and the assessed value of their property
[Find "Seattle Go Center" shows the owner listed as YOSHIDA TAKAO] so as of 2003 the owner listed with the government is Takao Yoshida.

Digging for Takao Yoshida bought a link to a page which leads to a dead page
http://pipl.com/directory/name/Katsuhisa/Hikojiro/
[Find "Takao Yoshida"] Takao Yoshida is listed as Nihon-Kiin Representative

Conclusion is that as of 2003, The Nihon-Kiin owns the building with Takao Yoshida as it's representative.

Not sure what the current situation is though.

Again, they may own the building, but depending on how Iwamoto sensei set up the arrangement, it can still be complicated.

[balistic]

Destroying an established cultural center to scrounge money to divert to a center that was less successful and has already closed is a bad idea.

I borrow a book from you, you ask for the book back. I say no because you will lend the book to someone else and thats a bad idea.
It holds no water, ultimately it is your book and your choice.

Destroying Iwamoto-sensei's legacy in doing so is a worse one.

Yep, supporting go players for eternity is the only way to complete the legacy. Bull -cough-. [MOD edit]

I'm not sure where your wellspring of faith in the good intentions of the Nihon Kiin comes from

How about in their generosity in the promotion of go worldwide. What has the SGC done for anyone else besides themselves?

These are all things that have been mentioned previously. As stated before, the accusers need to release real information about why this action HAD to take place as it is extreme.They need to justify themselves before anyone will be inclined to accept the scenario. So far its just heavy accusations.

edit: also typos

[judicata]

I would caution against making judgments without details--or the harm to the go community could be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I know enough to be confident that this situation is not simple. And I'm not talking about the legal issues. Regardless of which "side" you are on (if you have chosen one), the legal details are far less important than the relational/political implications. And this is coming from a lawyer.

But, keeping in mind their insignificance in the big picture, here are a few clarifications on legal points being discussed. These are just general statements of the law (and U.S. oriented--because that's the law I know), and in no way suggest how this case would turn out.

- Under U.S. law (and many other jurisdictions), it is actually very difficult for a donor to control his/her donation after it has been made. I'm not saying it is impossible--just difficult. Generally, if Bob donates $10 million to a university to name a building after him, the university will not have to return the money regardless of whether/when the building is built or for how long it stands. But usually donors trust those they donate money to, and universities will want to adhere to donors' wishes--otherwise, they could lose future donors. Of course, sometimes bad things happen because of misunderstandings of intent. (I don't know Japanese law on this issue, which is probably more relevant. And again, this is just a general hypothetical--I'm not saying it is analogous or includes the similar details.) For further reading, see the "consideration" element of a contract.

- Actions/statements that cause someone to act to their detriment in reliance on those statements can create legal obligations that don't otherwise exist. Before I give the following example, I want to be clear that I'm not saying it is or is not the case here. That said, consider the following: I have a spare house. I let Bob live there for free. Bob lives there for a few months, and then I promise him he can stay there for at least 2 years. A month later, I see Bob making general repairs to the house. After 12 months, I kick him out and sell the house--which is now more valuable than it was when he moved in, because of the repairs. Depending on additional details, it is entirely possible that I will owe Bob something--perhaps the market value of his handiwork. But little details affect this analysis: what if I knew Bob was a carpenter and worked on homes for a living? But what if I asked Bob about the repairs, and he said he was just bored and didn't expect anything in return? It could come out either way. For further reading, see promissory estoppel.

(edit: typos)