Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
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by Drewch Wed May 09, 2012 10:52 pm
EdLee wrote: Drewch,
Drewch wrote: I hope that I am not coming across as not appreciate
Not at all, no problem. This whole discussion is very interesting to me because I can see the different thought processes at work!
Good
I am an extremely logical person also, so I was just waiting for you to play a trump card on me that makes me realize the contradiction in my logic. Then I will see everything much clearer, once my logic proved wrong. I do this because it will last much longer and be a better lesson if I see the logic in it, rather then just being told a "Go saying" that I should think about before every move or something. Then I even know when it applies and when it doesn't
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859 Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pmGD Posts: 312Location: Santa Barbara, CAHas thanked: 349 times Been thanked: 2070 times
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by EdLee Wed May 09, 2012 11:00 pm
Drewch,
Drewch wrote: I now see that the corner is "bigger" because it takes WAY less moves to secure the corner or side then it does the middle.
One problem with the original phrasing of the questions was the ambiguous (and Go) usage of "big".
You're correct in your last diagram that the entire center (B's territory) had more points than the corner territory (W's).
But that's not the meaning in the question "In the opening, which is bigger -- side, corner, center ?"
Here, "big" encompasses the sense of "urgent" or "efficient". You got the correct conclusion.
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
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by Drewch Thu May 10, 2012 7:20 am
EdLee wrote: Drewch,
Drewch wrote: I now see that the corner is "bigger" because it takes WAY less moves to secure the corner or side then it does the middle.
One problem with the original phrasing of the questions was the ambiguous (and Go) usage of "big".
You're correct in your last diagram that the entire center (B's territory) had more points than the corner territory (W's).
But that's not the meaning in the question "In the opening, which is bigger -- side, corner, center ?"
Here, "big" encompasses the sense of "urgent" or "efficient". You got the correct conclusion.
@EdLee
hyperpape
Tengen
Posts: 4382 Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pmRank: AGA 3kGD Posts: 65OGS: Hyperpape 4kLocation: Caldas da Rainha, PortugalHas thanked: 499 times Been thanked: 727 times
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by hyperpape Thu May 10, 2012 8:33 am
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859 Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pmGD Posts: 312Location: Santa Barbara, CAHas thanked: 349 times Been thanked: 2070 times
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by EdLee Thu May 10, 2012 9:30 am
hyperpape,
hyperpape wrote: What good does it do to point out a broken shape in a joseki that white more or less played acceptably?
Which shape are you referring to? For example, there's a broken shape in this common joseki:
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$The one in their game, is it joseki?
hyperpape
Tengen
Posts: 4382 Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pmRank: AGA 3kGD Posts: 65OGS: Hyperpape 4kLocation: Caldas da Rainha, PortugalHas thanked: 499 times Been thanked: 727 times
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by hyperpape Thu May 10, 2012 10:31 am
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859 Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pmGD Posts: 312Location: Santa Barbara, CAHas thanked: 349 times Been thanked: 2070 times
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by EdLee Thu May 10, 2012 11:43 am
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
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by Drewch Thu May 10, 2012 12:22 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Sorry, I thought it was Boidhre's turn this whole time =\
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356 Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pmGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: BoidhreLocation: IrelandHas thanked: 661 times Been thanked: 442 times
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by Boidhre Thu May 10, 2012 12:26 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
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by Drewch Thu May 10, 2012 12:28 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
jts
Oza
Posts: 2662 Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 pmRank: kgs 6kGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 310 times Been thanked: 632 times
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by jts Thu May 10, 2012 12:38 pm
EdLee wrote: hyperpape,
hyperpape wrote: What good does it do to point out a broken shape in a joseki that white more or less played acceptably?
Which shape are you referring to? For example, there's a broken shape in this common joseki:
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$The one in their game, is it joseki?
There are a huge number of variations listed for the position that you
'd on Josekipedia, and all the moves up to that point are listed as "ideal". I think that's all hyperpape is saying. Here we are at move fifteen in one variation:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356 Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pmGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: BoidhreLocation: IrelandHas thanked: 661 times Been thanked: 442 times
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by Boidhre Thu May 10, 2012 12:53 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
This was being far too peaceful anyway. This move looks interesting to me.
Let's see if he's willing to exchange the corner for the outside. This is going to get complicated though which should suit Drewch.
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
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by Drewch Thu May 10, 2012 1:09 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356 Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pmGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: BoidhreLocation: IrelandHas thanked: 661 times Been thanked: 442 times
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by Boidhre Thu May 10, 2012 1:11 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
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by Drewch Thu May 10, 2012 1:12 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
'd on Josekipedia, and all the moves up to that point are listed as "ideal". I think that's all hyperpape is saying. Here we are at move fifteen in one variation: