Who will the first US pros be?

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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by hailthorn011 »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
snorri wrote:
shapenaji wrote:I really wonder, at the end of the day, in that last deciding game, whether one or both of the players will be sitting there, making their moves, thinking "Wow, do I really want this?"


Well, I hope everyone plays their best.

I can see how this could be a little sensitive. I'm sure the KBA wants the winners to really want to take advantage of the opportunity. It would be a shame for a winner to say, "nice game, but sorry I really can't go." I don't think that would be great for the Korea-U.S. go relations.



Ok, I got it. We all pack one of the qualifying tournaments, and make sure that Leyleth wins it. Even if he comes in last at the main event, there will be somebody to accept the title and save Korean face.



I wish I was strong enough to do it. I'd jump on the chance immediately. But I'm too weak and way too old, more than likely. Unfortunate.
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Who will the first US pros be?

Post by mogosoup »

I think they'll have to be under 30 right?
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by oren »

mogosoup wrote:I think they'll have to be under 30 right?


Why? I see nothing with age in the memorandum of understanding with KBA.

http://www.usgo.org/news/wp-content/upl ... KBAmou.pdf
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

hailthorn011 wrote:...
I wish I was strong enough to do it. I'd jump on the chance immediately...


It is settled then. You and Leyleth. Now we just have to decide which tournament we want to fix.
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by hailthorn011 »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
hailthorn011 wrote:...
I wish I was strong enough to do it. I'd jump on the chance immediately...


It is settled then. You and Leyleth. Now we just have to decide which tournament we want to fix.


lol if I was made pro and went to a Korean pro tournament, I would get laughed out of the building. <<
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by speedchase »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
hailthorn011 wrote:...
I wish I was strong enough to do it. I'd jump on the chance immediately...


It is settled then. You and Leyleth. Now we just have to decide which tournament we want to fix.

If you need someone for this plan next year I'd do it :)
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by Kirby »

It will be interesting to see if the US pro system will be a success. I must admit that I'm still skeptical.

Still, if things do work out for the pro system, I think it'd be natural to assume that those with the greatest AGA ranks have the greatest chance of qualifying if they choose to try. Of course, a pro qualifier may give incentive for others to participate, but given no other information, AGA rank seems to be a the best indicator we have right now of past performance.
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by Mef »

snorri wrote:It might seem odd, but most of the strong amateurs aren't really interested in becoming pro. The pro life is hard. I was about to post the link on Curtis, but hyperpape beat me to it.

Let's say Curtis finishes in the top 2. He's certainly strong enough. What's he going to do with this? Is he going to go to Korea? It doesn't seem that way.



I think if you get the right person at the right time in their life, it will be more attractive....a student who is about to graduate for instance, might not have a problem taking a year out to go to Korea and treating it like a semester abroad. They can then come back to the states, continue with their alternate career development, and use their pro status to maintain a side business (either online, or if they live in the correct area at an active club). I suppose a professional in the correct industry, or perhaps an academic would also be able to take a leave of absence or sabbatical to make the trip.

I agree that finding someone who truly wants to be a dedicated, competitive professional, or who wants to take the effort to build their own go school (like Feng Yun) to have as their primary source of income may be difficult to do here in the states.
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by shapenaji »

I think it's also fair to say that some of the difficulty finding people interested in becoming pros is just the novelty of the thing.

I don't think anyone really saw this as a possibility in the near-term. A lot of people may want to wait and see how this pans out. It's not like this is Korea, Japan, or China, where everyone at a certain level of play has it on their radar.
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by mhlepore »

I have to admit that my initial reaction to a US pro certification process was negative... mainly because I was worried that it would be considered a fake diploma - a medical degree from Guadalajara if you will. If it has no cache among the Asian pros, what is the point? What would keep Israel, or Italy, or Luxembourg from doing the same thing?

Now, especially after reading about Cho Hun-Hyun's comments given at the Cotsen, I think it could be a good idea. But it will take years to see the payoff, and the organizers of this system will need to have thought things out several steps ahead. It isn't enough to hire the employee - you must also develop the employee. What will happen to the new US pros? Will they get chances for training abroad? Sabbatical opportunities?
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by gowan »

There might be a parallel with the sport of bicycle racing. Forty years ago in the USA there were no pro bicycle racers and there was a long established pro bicycle racing system in Europe. The best American (amateur) racers were weak compared with Europe's best. It was considered a great achievement for an American racer to place sixth in the olympics road race. The few American racers who tried to make it in the pros were just unable to be successful. Then Greg Lemond made it as a pro and eventually won the Tour de France and other major races in Europe. Le Mond's success showed that American's could do it and in a matter of a few years more and more American riders were able to succeed as pro cyclists. Of course Lance Armstrong's success is well known. Maybe American pro go players will develop, in 20 years (or less), who can dominate the world open tournaments just as Armstrong did in cycling. What's needed is support and competition with players at pro level.
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by tchan001 »

Talked with Leyleth recently, looks like he gave up the dream.
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by daal »

gowan wrote:Then Greg Lemond made it as a pro...


In France.
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by gowan »

daal wrote:
gowan wrote:Then Greg Lemond made it as a pro...


In France.


True. He was the Michael Redmond of cycling. He showed that American-raised cyclists could make it in the pros in Europe. LeMond was the US junior champion before he began his pro career. And there were no other American pro cyclists until after LeMond succeeded. Now there are many and there are pro races in the USA that attract the European teams.
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Re: Who will the first US pros be?

Post by pwaldron »

gowan wrote:What's needed is support and competition with players at pro level.


I think the Koreans are providing the competition; from what I understand North American pros will be allowed to compete in Korean tournaments. Now realistically they'll get clobbered in the early rounds, but that doesn't bother me. Everyone has to start at the bottom and to expect next year's Meijin to be US born is a little much.

The bit I can't get my head around yet is how these players will support themselves financially. I assume that players could earn a moderate living by giving lessons, which the credibility of a pro diploma is bound to help. Lessons are inherently an individual thing, though, and is limited by the available time from the teacher. Clearly an additional stream of income will be necessary.

Westerners keep talking about needing "sponsorship" for tournaments. I think that's true, but when I look at the problem I keep thinking that it's the wrong vocabulary. While the recipient views money as sponsorship, the sponsor looks at it as advertising and so we have to ask how to make the go community attractive to advertisers. Part of that will be numbers, of course, but it will have to be more than that.

I think go media will be just as important, however, and there doesn't seem to have been a lot of movement on that in quite a while. Twenty years ago the only way for Westerners to access go was through a go club or paper book. A little under ten years ago people started broadcasting championship games online, and slightly more recently there was simultaneous transcription of pro commentary into these broadcasts. Eurogotv streamed live broadcasts, but none of these have turned into viable income streams.

To me it feels like the next major advance in Western go is not going to be the creation of a pro system, it will be leveraging some form of media to generate a domestic income stream. I think that will be the big thing that these new pros will have to work on if they want to secure a livelihood for themselves.
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