81

For lessons, as well as threads about specific moves, and anything else worth studying.
Post Reply
User avatar
oca
Lives in gote
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:53 am
Rank: DDK
GD Posts: 0
KGS: aco
IGS: oca
OGS: oca
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 485 times
Been thanked: 166 times

Re: 81

Post by oca »

oh... I like that :b9: in your first diagram, I should try that too ...
so many things to try... but fortunatly goquest can now send the sgf via email, that will help me to keep track of my different tries...

the second diagram is scary for me but I should also try that...
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 81

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3 A continuation
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , 5 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . 7 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . 7 , . . |
$$ | . . . 9 4 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , a . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 7 0 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Go is full of interesting things to read :)
Top
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: 81

Post by Uberdude »

topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3 Atari is often bad anyway...
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Actually atari is probably good because

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , 3 2 1 5 . . |
$$ | . . . 6 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Is more cramped for white than

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , 4 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


It's a bit of a moot point here as both are awesome for black, but it's an important shape principle. You see a similar idea in this joseki punishment: http://josekipedia.com/#path:pdqfqhofnd ... rjrkqkpkmi. White should play the atari on the 2 stones before the 3 because if you do the 3 first then black can extend the 2 as his escape plan (which still sucks big time when you take the 3) but at least his extension gives his outside stones more liberties and better shape than if you get that atari in on them.*

Ninja-d again, but topazg your last diagram end it faster:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


* Actually maybe it's not so clear cut, because playing atari on the 2 first allows black's escape plan to be connecting underneath as taking the 2 stones only gains the 4 white ones 1 liberty.
Last edited by Uberdude on Thu May 21, 2015 8:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 81

Post by topazg »

This is probably a better version of the one you liked btw:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm9 Sacrifice even bigger...
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . X O 8 6 . |
$$ | . . , X O X 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . X O O 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Never be afraid to use your stones as forcing exchanges instead of keeping them alive :)
Top
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: 81

Post by Uberdude »

topazg wrote:
Never be afraid to use your stones as forcing exchanges instead of keeping them alive :)


This is especially true on 9x9 I think. Bots are particularly good at sacrificing because they don't have the emotional attachments to their stones like humans do. So many of the impressive bot plays I have seen on 9x9 involve them dying early on but using the forcing moves and aji to win.
Top
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: 81

Post by Bill Spight »

topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , a . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 7 0 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Go is full of interesting things to read :)


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm3 Yet another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


:D
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
User avatar
oca
Lives in gote
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:53 am
Rank: DDK
GD Posts: 0
KGS: aco
IGS: oca
OGS: oca
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 485 times
Been thanked: 166 times

Re: 81

Post by oca »

Uberdude wrote:
topazg wrote:
Never be afraid to use your stones as forcing exchanges instead of keeping them alive :)


This is especially true on 9x9 I think. Bots are particularly good at sacrificing because they don't have the emotional attachments to their stones like humans do. So many of the impressive bot plays I have seen on 9x9 involve them dying early on but using the forcing moves and aji to win.


This is a game where I won as black while losing a 5 stones group. but... that was not planned in advence, so I feel being a bit lucky in that game ... and :w16: looked very slow to me.
komi is 7, chinese rules.
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Study Group”