A "Pro-Level" Tsumego

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ethanb
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Re: A "Pro-Level" Tsumego

Post by ethanb »

hiyayang wrote:@ethanb:

ethanb wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looks like this white lives, but black has lots of sente endgame. I'd be ok in most real games with this if I couldn't find the kill.


How does white respond to this black move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 2 . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


By throwing the board, I think. That is a NICE tesuji.
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hiyayang
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Re: A "Pro-Level" Tsumego

Post by hiyayang »

ethanb wrote:
hiyayang wrote:@ethanb:

How does white respond to this black move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 2 . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


By throwing the board, I think. That is a NICE tesuji.


And that would make it an interesting tsumego too. :)

For those who are wondering about the status of the white corner after :b3: , here is a diagram to show it is dead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc white dies
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 4 5 . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 2 . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It would not work if black switched the order of :b3: and :b5: above, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc white lives
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 4 O O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 2 7 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White group has enough outside liberties to kill the black inside, even though the latter has an eye. Note that black :b9: at :w10: doesn't connect. (If black plays :w6: instead of :b5: , white plays :b5: and the result would be the same as the diagram below.)

Other black moves like the :b3: below would also allow white to live:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc white lives
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 X X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 6 O O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 3 5 8 O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 2 . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


When white corner lacks outside liberties (e.g., the 'a' spots are taken by black), :b3: below is another way to kill white corner, but it doesn't work in this case (because :w10: doesn't put itself in atari):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc white lives
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 6 O O a O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 9 5 0 O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 8 2 . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: A "Pro-Level" Tsumego

Post by gonut »

hiyayang,

Doesn't White have a better response to your Black A5 attack?
I would answer this question myself, but I still miss bulky fives.


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Re: A "Pro-Level" Tsumego

Post by hiyayang »

gonut wrote:hiyayang,

Doesn't White have a better response to your Black A5 attack?



Correct. White has better responses than B2. I was just expanding on ethanb's post. I think white B4 would be OK too.
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