If you're new to the game and have questions, post them here.
Bill Spight
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by Bill Spight » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:40 pm
kivi wrote: Can you post that game.
Right, thanks.
Sorry I did not make that clear.
kivi wrote: ah, I see. Then can Bill or somebody who has the book post what it says about that variation?
I did. They say that it is joseki.
They also say that if White presses at
(E-07), Black takes the stone on C-04. If Black extends to F-06 instead, Black gets pushed around (kikasare).
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oren
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by oren » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:57 pm
(;GM[1]FF[4]SZ[19]AP[SmartGo:2.8.3.0] GN[s1951-05-16nc] PW[Miyashita Shuyo]WR[7p] PB[Sakata Eio]BR[7p] EV[Nihon Ki-in Highest Dans Tournament, 1st] DT[1951-05-16] KM[4.5] RE[B+R] CP[Collection Copyright (c) 2001-2008 Charles G. Robbins. All rights reserved.] T[Region:Japan];B[pd];W[dc];B[dp];W[qp];B[oq];W[lq];B[on];W[pm];B[lp];W[mp] ;B[mq];W[nq];B[mr];W[mo];B[np];W[kp];B[no];W[lr];B[nr];W[mn];B[qo];W[ro] ;B[qn];W[rn];B[qm];W[pr];B[rm];W[pq];B[ce];W[fq];B[fp];W[gp];B[fo];W[dq] ;B[eq];W[er];B[ep];W[gr];B[cq];W[go];B[dr];W[ci];B[gc];W[de];B[cd];W[dd] ;B[df];W[cc];B[cg];W[bf];B[cf];W[fe];B[ff];W[gf];B[ee];W[fd];B[gg];W[hf] ;B[kc];W[cl];B[hg];W[if];B[nd];W[pj];B[ig];W[jf];B[jg];W[ic];B[gn];W[hn] ;B[hm];W[im];B[gm];W[cn];B[qh];W[kf];B[nl];W[nj];B[ll];W[in];B[lh];W[mk] ;B[ml];W[kk];B[jl];W[mh];B[lg];W[li];B[oh];W[jk];B[il];W[mg];B[ki];W[lj] ;B[jm];W[pg];B[ph];W[me];B[md];W[mf];B[jo];W[jn];B[kn];W[ip];B[qd];W[ko] ;B[bm];W[cm];B[bn];W[bo];B[bl];W[bk];B[bp];W[co];B[ao];W[an];B[am];W[ak] ;B[ap];W[ei];B[ni];W[oi];B[nh];W[mi];B[dk];W[ck];B[dj];W[ch];B[bg];W[fj] ;B[hj];W[fl];B[gk];W[el];B[id];W[hc];B[hd];W[gb];B[em];W[gi];B[fh];W[ji] ;B[hi];W[eh];B[eg];W[gh];B[jh];W[bh];B[fc];W[om];B[ok])
(;GM[1]FF[4]SZ[19]AP[SmartGo:2.8.3.0] GN[s1996-11-01cc] PW[Wang Jianhong]WR[9p] PB[Zheng Hong]BR[9p] EV[Bao Sheng Dian Lan Cup, 1996] DT[1996-11-01] KM[5.5] RE[W+R] CP[Collection Copyright (c) 2001-2008 Charles G. Robbins. All rights reserved.] RU[Chinese] T[Region:China];B[pd];W[pp];B[dd];W[cq];B[jd];W[cf];B[fd];W[ci];B[pj];W[ql] ;B[dp];W[cp];B[do];W[er];B[gp];W[qf];B[qe];W[pf];B[nd];W[qj];B[qi];W[pi] ;B[qk];W[rj];B[oj];W[ri];B[qh];W[rk];B[rh];W[re];B[rd];W[ph];B[oh];W[pg] ;B[rf];W[rg];B[se];W[oi];B[nj];W[sg];B[nq];W[np];B[mp];W[no];B[pq];W[oq] ;B[or];W[op];B[mr];W[qq];B[mo];W[pr];B[mm];W[lq];B[mq];W[hq];B[hp];W[iq] ;B[ip];W[jq];B[jp];W[ej];B[df];W[dg];B[ce];W[ef];B[de];W[cg];B[hd];W[eq] ;B[fl];W[gk];B[gq];W[gr];B[hr];W[ir];B[fr];W[hs];B[fk];W[fj];B[gj];W[gl] ;B[fm];W[hj];B[gi];W[ik];B[fq];W[fs];B[jj];W[ii];B[gg];W[kh];B[jk];W[gm] ;B[fn];W[li];B[mh];W[jl];B[lj];W[mi];B[ni];W[mj];B[mk];W[lk];B[ji];W[jh] ;B[ki];W[lh];B[ll];W[mg];B[nh];W[hh];B[gh];W[hg];B[hf];W[if];B[kk];W[gf] ;B[ff];W[he];B[ge];W[bn];B[hf];W[ie];B[jc];W[gf];B[fg];W[eg];B[ee];W[im] ;B[cm];W[bk];B[pm];W[pl];B[ol];W[qm];B[pn];W[qn];B[bf];W[bg];B[be];W[bm] ;B[cl];W[ck];B[lf];W[kf];B[ke];W[lg];B[mf];W[ep];B[kr];W[kq];B[jn];W[lr] ;B[jm];W[je];B[nf];W[in];B[io];W[le];B[kd];W[lo];B[hi];W[ij];B[gn];W[ko] ;B[ln];W[hn];B[jo];W[nn];B[mn];W[oe];B[of];W[pe];B[od];W[om];B[ls];W[ok] ;B[nl];W[pk];B[eh];W[ek];B[ag];W[ah];B[af];W[ch];B[dq];W[dr];B[co];W[bo] ;B[nm];W[on];B[ps];W[qs];B[os];W[cn];B[dn];W[el];B[dm];W[jr];B[ks])
kivi
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by kivi » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:04 pm
[quote="oren"][/quote] Both games it is the losing move, hehe :p On a serious note, especially second game it is easy to see the special reason why the differing move (n5 there) becomes more attractive than usual.
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by speedchase » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:39 pm
kivi wrote: On a serious note, especially second game it is easy to see the special reason why the differing move (n5 there) becomes more attractive than usual.
I don't! The low position of white's corner, and the fact that black is undercut would make me think that influence is less important than normal
jts
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by jts » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:56 pm
speedchase wrote: kivi wrote: On a serious note, especially second game it is easy to see the special reason why the differing move (n5 there) becomes more attractive than usual.
I don't! The low position of white's corner, and the fact that black is undercut would make me think that influence is less important than normal
Yes, I didn't see it either! Positionally, the bottom doesn't seem bigger than the lower right. But perhaps kivi's idea is that the cut at r4 is bad?
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by Shaddy » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:10 pm
It's because of the o10 group, i think.