#147 Marcus vs 1986

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1986
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm130 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . O O . X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . 9 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
standing still means going backwards
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Marcus
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm130 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . O O . X O O . 0 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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1986
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm140 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O . . . 1 . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i got tired of just responding, so i broke away from the fight to defend some leaks that could arise, this moves just takes away his sente at J1 so he can't try nothing funny.

really im looking for some better moves, i have been playing with the stones again so far i got
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm130 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . O O . X O O . 0 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . b . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X d . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
its almost endgame time so i need make moves that are more sharper and valuable

*take your time me*
:study:
standing still means going backwards
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schultz
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by schultz »

Wot wot?

I understand his desire not to continue "following" Marcus, but with a move like this? What sequence is he reading that would actually require this move?

I'd be more inclined to keep up the pressure on white while you have him running.

A move that looks interesting for me:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . X X O 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Also, should he be so quick to give up the his two stones in the upper right?
For 1986:
You mention your last move as defending so leaks that could arise -- did you read out any sequences that would put you in a bad spot?
KGS: schultz [?].
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1986
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by 1986 »

schultz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm140 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X 3 . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O 2 1 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
this ends in gote because shortage of liberties
but i want to play that move
so i played my move to take way his sente
and keep mine for the future

every move counts espically in that fight on the bottom
standing still means going backwards
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illluck
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by illluck »

1986's game move is sente (so is almost any other local move).

I don't agree with 1986's explanation diagram, though. For one, that result is not gote for him. For another, if he thinks that's a gote result, what is the difference between that and the game move?

Edit: also, in the explanation diagram, seems like 41 should be at 42 instead.
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Marcus
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm140 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O 2 . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I ... don't get it ... I thought maybe I'd missed something here, but I can't see the danger. Sure, I have to respond ... but if I do manage to get a ko going, this is a waste of a huge ko threat.

So, I'll respond, and wait to see what he does next.
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1986
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm140 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . 3 O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
well he saw that comming lol,
i shifted my focus to my old inside weak group
i like this moves because it picks up some free points its sente, and my group is not in danger so i dont have to worry

as long as the ball is on my side of the court i can find big endgame moves and block off some points, because there is not that many open areas left on the board. its crunch time!
:study:
standing still means going backwards
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by schultz »

illluck wrote:
1986's game move is sente (so is almost any other local move).

I don't agree with 1986's explanation diagram, though. For one, that result is not gote for him. For another, if he thinks that's a gote result, what is the difference between that and the game move?

Edit: also, in the explanation diagram, seems like 41 should be at 42 instead.
And I wonder why I'm so bad at tsumego... haha. Thanks illluck - I was missing the simple obviousness that Marcus needed to respond because of the capture race with that group.

I do agree with your statement, though. And Marcus' statement.

Seeing 1986's last comment - was he hoping to trick Marcus into thinking he'd made a bad move? An interesting play, if you don't mind burning ko threats.
KGS: schultz [?].
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Unicorn
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by Unicorn »

Black should just play like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | 4 6 . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | 3 2 O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | 5 1 . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If black tries to live in the corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 7 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . 9 X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . 3 8 , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . 1 O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . 2 4 . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
He simply fails, so white just gets free points.

Also, his outside forcing moves aren't worth anything.
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Marcus
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm140 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . X O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Flat out mistake. Black cannot live in the corner.
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1986
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm140 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O X O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . X O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
this is pretty much a asking move i wanna see how he plays, maybe there is a chance to make sabaki in the corner. it all really depends on his response... its late im about to go to bed, goodnight :salute:
standing still means going backwards
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Marcus
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm140 Prisoners: :b2: :w2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O C O X . X . . X . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O X . . . X O O . X O . |
$$ | . . . , O X X . . O O X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . X O . O . . O O . X O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O . O X . X X O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O X . X . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O O O X X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . X O X O X X . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . X O O O O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't see what he gets from this.
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Marcus
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by Marcus »

Not sure if you caught my move? It's been a while ...
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Marcus
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Re: #147 Marcus vs 1986

Post by Marcus »

1986 has not been on the forums in a month. I hope he's ok.
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