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thequietcenter (9k) vs iridium (3k) - review my review

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=18702

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thequietcenter (9k) vs iridium (3k) - review my review

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:34 am
by thequietcenter
Hello, I played as Black and lost this game. I would appreciate a review of my review:

https://online-go.com/review/862301

Re: thequietcenter (9k) vs iridium (3k) - review my review

Posted: Fri May 06, 2022 11:32 am
by CDavis7M
Well played. Though I suspected it was a correspondence game and it was. If you and your opponents have accurate ranks you did well, especially for correspondence.

There is a comment on Move 34 about an invasion. It can't be as deep as 'a' at that point in the game because White would simply cap at 'b' and already have supporting stones on both sides.

Back to move 31, Black induced white to become stronger. Black's group on the top (being extended from) was fine.

Black made 6 points of territory in exchange for giving White ~15? points of fairly secure territory. And white has more potential to develop I think.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 31 to 34. Point 'A' marked in the OGS commentary.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X C C |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C C |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . 3 C C |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . 4 , O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C C C . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C C C . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b C a C C |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . C C C . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This doesn't really work at this point. You need more stones or better if this is played BEFORE move 31. After the exchanges, I worry about White being able to kill the corner. At least White will attack the bottom side. And even beyond that, Black is going to be in trouble. I think Black would regret this invasion. This just points to why 31 was bad to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B A bad idea
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O 2 O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O . . O O O 4 . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Maybe :b3: , or abc, I don't know. Still doesn't seem good. Maybe best to just start with 3.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . c b . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O . . O O O 2 . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: thequietcenter (9k) vs iridium (3k) - review my review

Posted: Fri May 06, 2022 5:38 pm
by Harleqin
I think that's too hard. I'd want to extend to :b5: as black, at some point. I think something like this is enough:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . O X X 5 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: thequietcenter (9k) vs iridium (3k) - review my review

Posted: Sat May 07, 2022 3:14 am
by Knotwilg
Agree with Harleqin on :b1: On :b5: I would continue and turn with the reducing stones, not to lose control over the center.

KataGo wants to cut through the elephant's eye at :b5: which is a more active way of affecting the center I guess

In any case Harleqin's :b5: looks more like an endgame move, as Black can still extend along the bottom for life.

Re: thequietcenter (9k) vs iridium (3k) - review my review

Posted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:48 pm
by Harleqin
Knotwilg wrote: In any case Harleqin's :b5: looks more like an endgame move, as Black can still extend along the bottom for life.
I don't think of it as endgame or defensive, it also seems to affect the stability of the white group(s). I am thinking of something like this (please disregard the exact position of the example white stone on the left):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O a . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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