2 Tsumegos from a teaching game

1986 · Post by **1986** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:23 pm

this is from a teaching game i played today with a 1d on KGS

i'm black and i want to kill the square marked chain of white stones in the middle of my two sloppy black groups

black to play and kill

a observer 6d player solved it, so i already know the answer
i think its only one answer maybe u can find a easier way

its pretty tough

the 1d didn't see it so its should be good problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O O X . O O X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O . @ X . . X . O . | $$ | . X X O . . . . X . X O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . X O O O O X . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . X . O X X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . X X O X X . . X O . . . | $$ | . . O O X X O O X X O O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X X O O X O O . O X O . , O . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . X . O O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

if you do solve it, i would be interested to know how long it took u to solve it
so please post your working time

the 6 dan said it could be solved under 10 minutes at the most
but the 1 dan said its too much reading
for a 30 minute game,
you would waste too much time reading it out

what are your thoughts?

the 6d gave me this problem and a few hints so i'm pretty close to solving it

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

its a challenge he said its dan level

black to play & live

Tsumego is fun! :study:

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:53 pm

Haven't attempted to solve these yet, just fixing the diagrams. You should leave one line of just $$ after the go diagrams

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O O X . O O X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O . @ X . . X . O . | $$ | . X X O . . . . X . X O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . X O O O O X . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . X . O X X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . X X O X X . . X O . . . | $$ | . . O O X X O O X X O O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X X O O X O O . O X O . , O . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . X . O O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

1986 · Post by **1986** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:02 am

Thanks I was wondering why my diagrams looked funny

1986 · Post by **1986** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:18 pm

here are the answers for the kyu players like me
u gotta hit next game i messed up and created a multigame sgf
so just hit next game to see the solution

i still cant find the solution to the second problem
i been looking at it for a day now
im starting to think there is no solution
he said its from the igo hatsuyoron
so maybe somebody i can look it up
:study:

unkx80 · Post by **unkx80** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:32 pm

My comments for 1986:

Problem 1

I admit I never solved this problem. However, I'm not entirely convinced of the solution. Please provide variations for the following, thank you.

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . 2 X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X 1 O O X . O O X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O . @ X . . X . O . | $$ | . X X O . . . . X . X O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . X O O O O X . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . X . O X X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . X X O X X . . X O . . . | $$ | . . O O X X O O X X O O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X X O O X O O . O X O . , O . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . X . O O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . |[/go]

Problem 2

1986 · Post by **1986** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:59 pm

wow he missed something, i like your variations they kill black completely
well i cant read out easy life, for black,
i guess even 6ds mess up :lol:

so this is to much reading for a actual game with problem # one
it takes to long to read its better to just seek easy life and move on to something else

here is my guess to variation 1

the second problem does have a solution thats interesting
he showed me a few ideas with the position i still have not figured it out

well back to the games

ethanb · Post by **ethanb** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:35 pm

1986 wrote:i still cant find the solution to the second problem
i been looking at it for a day now
im starting to think there is no solution
he said its from the igo hatsuyoron
so maybe somebody i can look it up

From the Igo Hatsuyoron? It's almost certainly pro-dan level, then - I'm pretty sure everything in that book (scroll?) is.

I'm not saying don't study it! With a 6d giving you hints, it should be worthwhile, but maybe don't spend more than 1 or 2 hours a day on it (unless you really want to, of course.)

unkx80 · Post by **unkx80** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:36 am

For the second problem, in my opinion:
1. It is an amazing problem on its own.
2. The solution contains move(s) that are not recommended of typical play, therefore I do not think it is a good study problem for typical problems.
3. It requires a lot of careful reading in unexpected places, therefore it is a suitable problem if you want to improve on this area.

For some reason, the solution for this problem seems to be hardwired in my brain. So here it is, if you want to peek. Main line only.

SPOILER - SOLUTION FOR PROBLEM 2 - SPOILER

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Solution $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . $$ | . O . X O O . . . . . . $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . $$ | . . X 9 X O . . . , . . $$ | . . X O O 1 2 . . X . . $$ | . . . 5 6 3 4 . . . . . $$ | . . . 7 8 0 . . . . . . $$ ------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Solution $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . $$ | . O 7 X O O . . . . . . $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . $$ | 6 5 X X X O . . . , . . $$ | 4 9 X O O . O . . X . . $$ | 2 3 8 X O . O . . . . . $$ | . 1 0 X O O . . . . . . $$ ------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Solution $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . $$ | . 3 O . . . O . . . . . $$ | . O X X O O . . . . . . $$ | 2 O X . X . O . . . . . $$ | O X X X X O . . . , . . $$ | O X X O O . O . . X . . $$ | O X O . O . O . . . . . $$ | 1 X O . O O . . . . . . $$ ------------------------[/go]

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2 Tsumegos from a teaching game

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