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Fuseki Problem
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:54 pm
by oso
I like these series.
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:28 pm
by Shaddy
Just wondering- where are these problems from?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:45 pm
by EdLee
Instead of a 118kb jpg photo, you can also consider a diagram,
which is much smaller in size and much more useful for people to add moves and variations:
$$B Fig. 1 "Saru Otohime vs Mai Shonagon"
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Fig. 1 "Saru Otohime vs Mai Shonagon"You can read about making diagrams and SGF files here--
viewforum.php?f=5
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:28 pm
by oso
Oh. Ok, hurr.
this problem: don't be fooled by the names. They are fictional characters. As for the diagram, I confess I don't know who actually played the game. I assume an ameteur from some go server. Why?
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:42 pm
by Phelan
I'd go straight for the standard response
$$B Obvious response?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Obvious response?
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:29 pm
by Aphelion
$$B My move
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B My moveThis should be sente.
Edit: I would probably play this move even if its not sente. This move is absolutely humongous as it concerns the base of two groups.
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:42 pm
by Aphelion
More ideas:
$$B Too good for white. W can also block at 'a' before 6
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Too good for white. W can also block at 'a' before 6$$B W pushes from behind, B builds influence and extends toward 4-4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B W pushes from behind, B builds influence and extends toward 4-4Some guesses on how this position occured:
$$B Looks like a ddk game?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Looks like a ddk game?
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:43 pm
by topazg
I find this position really pretty hard. I'm not overly keen on C3, just because Black takes the point I want
$$W My move
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W My moveThis is the exchange I was thinking of, now looking at a pincer at the top as well. However,
is really large too.
@
doesn't really work so well in my eyes, as Black can respond at
and deprive White from getting anything. This then makes
a less sente point for White to take.
I'm kinda torn between one of these, but the both look bigger than anything else to me.
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:55 pm
by Aphelion
Topazg, its strange, because I had the same reasoning, except that C3 was the point I wanted
My reasoning:
In this diagram no White stone is wasted. Although
is big, White has perfectly fine ways to proceed locally. The marked
exchanges however, clearly favors White. White is thick all around.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B In your diagram:
$$W My move
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W My move1-2 exchange heavily favors White, but 3-4 exchange is in black's favor. I think White, however, has the thinnest group on the board. Its not too clear to me who is better...
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:12 pm
by topazg
$$B Black tries to beat White's top left up?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Black tries to beat White's top left up?It's
that's bugging me about letting Black do this. The thinness in the top left feels much more "potentially disastrous" than the bottom somehow, even though White has plenty to worry about down there too.
I think White's shoulder hit at D9 (if that's what it was) is just kinda bizarre
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:21 pm
by Aphelion
Mmm, what do you think about this as a response to B7? Its not easy though.... I also want to draw your attention to the fact that C3 means the difference between good potential on the bottom for White vs 2 thin stones, so maybe that can compensate for the top
I also ninja edited my original post so that D9 is now a pincer stone
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Edit: Now that I look at it...I'm not sure I like the top diagram either. Maybe W can push from behind? I still feel that C3 is too big a move to give up though, especially with White having invested 3 stones on the bottom.
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:06 pm
by oso
Do you think we could get a strong player to comment on it? I've been following with interest, and I'd like to know what maybe a dan level player would think? Any dans want to comment?
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:35 pm
by Dusk Eagle
topazg is a dan.
Anyway, I'm also kind of torn between 'a' and 'b' below.
$$B Fig. 1 "Saru Otohime vs Mai Shonagon"
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Fig. 1 "Saru Otohime vs Mai Shonagon"In a sense, they feel like miai, but only if white takes it (i.e. not black). Since 'b' concerns base of white's corner group, I'm thinking it's probably the best. Black will then take 'a', and I can't decide what's best from there.
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:53 pm
by Aphelion
I'm starting to think that D9 should be treated lightly:
$$W Fig. 1 "Saru Otohime vs Mai Shonagon"
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Fig. 1 "Saru Otohime vs Mai Shonagon"If B takes gote to play at 'a', all is good, otherwise
is in perfect position if White thinks its good time to take 'a' for himself.
Re: Fuseki Problem
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:43 am
by topazg
Yeah, I like that latest one a lot Aphelion. Of course, that makes D9 feel like a mistake somehow, even if White is treating it lightly, I'm left with the slight feeling of "what is it doing there?"
$$W Fig. 1 "Saru Otohime vs Mai Shonagon"
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Fig. 1 "Saru Otohime vs Mai Shonagon"Oso, was this one of your games by any chance?
this problem: don't be fooled by the names. They are fictional characters. As for the diagram, I confess I don't know who actually played the game. I assume an ameteur from some go server. Why?
is really large too. 
@ 
doesn't really work so well in my eyes, as Black can respond at 
is big, White has perfectly fine ways to proceed locally. The marked 
exchanges however, clearly favors White. White is thick all around.
that's bugging me about letting Black do this. The thinness in the top left feels much more "potentially disastrous" than the bottom somehow, even though White has plenty to worry about down there too.
